204. Purpose Through Cancer and Amputation - Terry Tucker

Listen here

What is the role of mindset on a cancer journey?

How can it be possible to feel sensation or even pain in a part of the body you have lost due to amputation?

Terry Tucker is a former college basketball player, SWAT Team Hostage Negotiator, and cancer warrior for the past ten years (which included the amputation of his foot in 2018 and leg in 2020). He’s the author of the book, Sustainable Excellence. 

In this rich and meaningful episode, we talk about the role cancer and amputation have played in helping Terry live his most purposeful life, as well as topics such as these:

• What are Terry’s four truths, and how has he used them in his life?
• How does comfort hold us back from growth?
• How might you be fulfilling your life’s purpose even if you have a very mainstream job?

www.motivationalcheck.com

Book: Sustainable Excellence

00:00.00
karagoodwin
Hi and welcome to the meditation conversation I'm your host Kara Goodwin and today I'm joined by Terry Tucker Terry is a former college basketball player a swat team hostage negotiator. Ah, cancer warrior for the past ten years which included the amputation of his foot in 2018 and his leg in 2020 and he's also the author of the book sustainable excellence. So welcome Terry I'm so happy to meet you so I gave a little overview but I would love for you to tell us about your journey that has gotten you to where you are now.

00:34.32
Terry Tucker
Thank you Kara I'm looking forward to talking with you today.

00:45.37
Terry Tucker
Sure so I grew up on the south side of Chicago I am the oldest of three boys. You can't tell this from my voice or from looking at me but I'm six foot eight inches tall and I actually went to college at at the citadel a military college in South Carolina a basketball scholarship when I graduated I moved home to find a job I was actually the first person in my family to graduate from college and so I was all set to make my mark on the world with my newly obtained business administration degree and I look back now and realize how little I knew about business just because I had a degree.

01:21.85
karagoodwin
Yeah, yeah.

01:23.85
Terry Tucker
Fortunately I was able to find that first job in the corporate headquarters in the marketing department of Wendy's international the hamburger chain. Unfortunately I've lived with my parents for the next three and a half years as I helped my mother care for my father and my grandmother who were both dying of different forms of cancer.

01:32.00
karagoodwin
Um.

01:42.84
Terry Tucker
Touched a little bit on my professional experience. So I really won't go into that very much and then I guess finally my wife and I have been married for almost thirty years. We have one child a daughter who's a graduate of the United States air force academy and is an officer in the new branch of the military. The space force.

02:00.61
karagoodwin
What oh my gosh? Well that's fascinating. Ah.

02:07.30
Terry Tucker
It is you probably should have her on here more than you should have. Ah.

02:11.23
karagoodwin
Well I think you've got your own worth. But yeah, that is fascinating I mean you say like 1 sentence about your daughter and it's like what wait ha who what? Wow well yes I can't imagine and um yeah I appreciate that.

02:21.38
Terry Tucker
Ah, we're very proud of her as you can imagine.

02:28.70
karagoodwin
That condensed version of a whole lifetime. Um there. How did the the amputation of your foot and your leg and and all of that and that your cancer story and and all of that How has that come to play a part because this is a It's a big. Um, it's a big change going from you know first of the first of the family to get a college education and then you had the swat team piece which in the military stuff and then going into the cancer and now you know you're an author and. And kind of showing you know you have a lot of Facets. So How have those kind of all all unfolded for you.

03:09.91
Terry Tucker
Yeah, that's that's a good question I actually had a nurse recently who asked me, you know what was it like to have your your foot amputated and then have your leg amputated and and I've told her it it has not been easy. It's been a little over 2 years since I've had my leg amputated and I'm still learning.

03:20.74
karagoodwin
Um.

03:29.59
Terry Tucker
How to walk again. You know with the prosthetic obviously at 6 but 8 falling is not an option. You know you can kind of get hurt in that regard. But what I told her was you know cancer can take all my physical faculties but cancer can't touch my mind. It can't touch my heart and it can't touch my soul.

03:33.57
karagoodwin
Oh you know.

03:47.80
karagoodwin
Me.

03:48.15
Terry Tucker
And that's who I am That's who you are care and that's everybody who's listening to us really is and we all get hung up On. You know how do I look or especially when you're sick and you're going through chemo and you're losing your hair and you know your skin gets blotchy and all but all the ugliness that goes on and we all get you know, kind of caught up in that and and myself included. But you know when you take a step back and you realize that this is just ah, a vessel or a house or whatever you want to call it to house who we really are and we spend so much time working on our physical bodies and so little time working on our heart our mind and our soul and that's really who we are.

04:24.73
karagoodwin
The.

04:26.60
Terry Tucker
So I mean it certainly has been an entire shift in my life I mean it's it's been It's been over 10 years now that I've been dealing with with this cancer journey and it just seems like it's 1 thing after another and you know just when you think oh um, I'm kind of coming out the other side but well. This pops up or that pops up and you you just realize that it's your mindset that really in anything we do. It's your mindset that either makes you successful in it or leads you down the path of you know woe is me everybody should feel sorry for me and and don't get me wrong i. I have bad days. There are days that I cry there are days that I get down there are days I feel sorry for myself. But I just don't let myself stay in those days for very long.

05:16.46
karagoodwin
It's so important and I want to go back to the the mindset piece because you're absolutely right? and I love that your mug is the size of you that is a mug for a six foot 8 man and so.

05:23.85
Terry Tucker
It is and it's water I Promise it's really just water and so.

05:32.40
karagoodwin
Some people are listening to this and they can't see it but it may be worth going on to Youtube and just looking. We're 5 minutes in go to 5 minutes and just look at the size of the mug that he just drank from that's perfect. It fits you perfectly I love it. Um. So I do want to go back to the mindset because that is an really important point and there's a lot of wisdom in there that you're taking for granted I feel you know or it's like oh yeah, we're not these bodies. Um, but I do want to just? um. Pause because there's a a unique perspective that you're able to have that I'm curious about which is in losing your leg I I have heard about like the phantom pains that can happen when we lose ah an an arm or a leg. Where you can actually feel sensations where you don't you know you no longer have so your foot. For instance, you may feel like a pain in the foot that hat that you know where there isn't a foot anymore have you experienced anything like that.

06:41.11
Terry Tucker
I have actually I'm on a ah drug called Lyric ah to help with the phantom pain and and yes there there is phantom pain but there's also just the sensation like right now I'm sitting here in my wheelchair I can feel my foot on the ground you know I can.

06:55.44
karagoodwin
So what? that's fascinating like what do you make of that.

06:58.72
Terry Tucker
Feeling? Well you know I've talked to my doctors about it and basically what they say is that you know I mean I was what fifty eight fifty nine sixty somewhere in there when I had my my leg amputated you have. That that many years of your of that wiring to your brain of the feeling of your foot the feeling of your knee the feeling of of the things that aren't there anymore and I had ah a terrible Basically what happened is I had a tumor that had grown. For lack of a better area in my ankle that grew large enough that it fractured my tibia my shin bone and so I was walking around for a couple weeks on a broken leg because of the cancer and so I still feel that pain even though I don't have a tibia anymore I don't have a knee I don't have an ankle.

07:50.83
karagoodwin
Um, and.

07:51.40
Terry Tucker
But what they say is you know you've had that connection for you know, 60 years of your life. It's not going to go away overnight just because we sever the nerves your nerves kind of expect to have that sensation going to them and so and I am still being treated for cancer I have tumors in my lungs. And on the week that I go for treatment every third week the the phanto pain is much worse. It kind of keeps me up at night. It's almost like a lightning bolt going through the area of my leg that I don't have anymore and and you almost jerk and that kind of thing. So.

08:15.10
karagoodwin
1000000

08:29.80
Terry Tucker
So it's it's been a real interesting dynamic to play out I mean you just sort of get used to you live in sort of maybe ah, a number 4 you know on a scale 1 to 10 you know it's probably a 4 in terms of pain which is you know it's not killing me but it's just always there.

08:42.82
karagoodwin
Um, yeah, Wow. Well thank you for sharing that and I mean I I do energy work. So.

08:46.78
Terry Tucker
So.

08:53.93
karagoodwin
It's interesting because your doctors have that you know they're looking at Neurons they're looking like the Neuron Network within your brain and then how that affects your nervous system and your and the nerves that would travel down your leg for me I I engage with. With people also at the energy level where we have this like blueprint of who we are and that blueprint remains Beyond the physical so you know ties in really beautifully with the point of your intro where where we were just talking about. You know we're beyond the human body. This is a temporary vessel and but it has an energetic blueprint and so it's It's really and I find it very very fascinating that we can have something that shows that the origin of. Sensation and the origin of our our experience I mean that's what an amazing incredible illustration of our energetic template beyond the physical body because you remove a part of the physical body. And you still can have the physical sensations that carry on like that's really very very powerful and I'm I'm very sorry that it it's ah such a physical pain for you. You know I wish that it was like wow.

10:25.91
karagoodwin
Yeah I feel these little it feels like somebody's just massaging my foot all the time you know I would love for it to have been that kind of sensation but but I appreciate you you sharing that with this because I think it's a really powerful and unique perspective and experience that you have that. That opens ah a door of understanding within within those of us who are not in that same living experience.

10:53.48
Terry Tucker
Yeah I was like you you know I had heard about people with Phantom Pain or Phantom sensation but I never even when I woke up after the surgery I could still feel the the pain of of you know my my tibia my shin bone being broken and things like that and and I remember kind of. Pulling back The covers. It's like it's It's not there anymore. How? how can I you know shouldn't that be gone and and that started a whole you know discussion with my doctors about no, it's not. It's it's not like we take it off and it's gone I mean you have that sensation. Your brain is wired that way you still have those nerves.

11:14.79
karagoodwin
And yeah.

11:26.00
karagoodwin
Most.

11:32.32
Terry Tucker
They just stop you know somewhere down your five So they're still there though.

11:34.12
karagoodwin
Yeah, yeah, Wow So fascinating. Well through your challenges you've developed what you call the 4 truths so I would Love. To hear about these. Can you share about the 4 truths.

11:51.22
Terry Tucker
Sure the the 4 truths are you know people ask me how did you come up with the 4 truths I was actually on a podcast where it it was it was I can't remember tell but it had something to do with your truths and the woman who was the host was like I need 3 truths and I'm oh my you know I better. Better codify these you know I better get these down on paper I've since added one to them. Um, but but I'll give them to you I have them on a posted note sitting here on my desk and I I see them multiple times during the day so they constantly get reinforced in my mind. The first one is you need to control your mind or your mind is going to control. You. The second one is embrace the pain and the difficulty that we all experience in life and use that pain and difficulty to make you a stronger and more determined and more resilient individual The third one is more of a I guess a legacy truth for lack of a better word. And it's what you leave behind is what you weave in the hearts of other people and then the fourth one I think is pretty self-explanatory as long as you don't quit. You can never be defeated so I use those I kind of call them sort of the bedrock of my soul. They're just ah, they're they're good things. To to sort of build a quality life off of and and I I recommend that I give them to people when I talk and stuff like that and so if they work for you use them if 1 works for you then use that and develop your own around the one that I gave you so you know you know I call them my fortress.

13:23.11
Terry Tucker
They're not mine I don't I don't own them. They're not copyrighted or and I mean there I don't think you can necessarily own a truth but they're definitely something that play a big, a big part in my life.

13:33.99
karagoodwin
Yeah, well do you have examples I mean we've talked a lot actually about pain. Um, and one of those was you know, kind of embrace that. Um, do you have examples for these of how you've been able to apply it within your own life.

13:48.65
Terry Tucker
I Do I think the first one control your mind or it will Control. You was something I learned early in life I had 3 knee surgeries in high school as a result of basketball injuries and I remember when I went back playing Basketball. My brain was putting all kinds of negative thoughts into my mind you know things like hey you're probably a step slower since these surgeries and college coaches aren't going to be interested in reaching out you know about you playing for their college University and I remember thinking wait a minute I'm still playing at an elite level.

14:15.32
karagoodwin
How long.

14:24.10
Terry Tucker
And coaches are still reaching out about the possibility of playing for their school. So I learned that I had ah had to change the narrative I had to sort of flip the switch and and put something positive in there and I get asked a lot. You know how do I go from being a glass half empty to a glass half full type of. Person and my recommendation is you know it's not going to happen overnight. You're not going to just flip a switch and say okay I'm positive today. But what I encourage people to do is first of all recognize you have those negative thoughts I think the Cleveland Clinic did a study and says that. On any given day we have 60 to 70000 thoughts that pass through our mind most of which we're not even cognizant of but your mind can only hold 1 thought at a time. Why would you want to make that a negative one. So I always encourage people understand that negative thoughts are gonna be there. We're human beings. You know I don't care how positive you are, you're still going to have negative thoughts but realize that negative thought is there don't get all excited about it but then change it to something that's positive something that works for you for your benefit and over time and I don't know what that time period is for people but over time. Your mind will start to expect more positive thoughts than it will negative so that I mean it's it's a pretty simple fix but simple things a lot of times are difficult to you know to implement in our lives. So so that's the first one. The second one about embracing the pain and the difficulty.

15:51.26
karagoodwin
Um.

15:57.49
Terry Tucker
We're all going to experience pain in our lives and it doesn't have to be cancer pain or even any kind of an illness it could be. You know as simple as you break up with your boyfriend or your girlfriend or you know you have a fender bender on the way to church or you don't get the promotion at work that you believe you deserve pain is inevitable. Suffering on the other hand suffering's optional. Suffering's what you do with that pain. Do you take it and use it to make you a stronger and more determined individual or do you wallow in it and feel sorry for yourself and want other people to feel sorry for you I mean i. I look at you know our brains being hardwired to avoid pain and discomfort and to seek pleasure. The the problem with that is you know the the status quo. It's comfortable to the brain and it should be left alone but the problem with that is the only way we're going to grow the only way we're going to develop the only way we're gonna get better. If we step outside our comfort zones and do things that make us uncomfortable I used to be a girls high school basketball coach down in Texas and my players will tell you that I used to constantly say that enough you need to get comfortable being uncomfortable. So with that I guess I'm just saying. Instead of running from pain try to do just the opposite take that pain flip it inside burn it as fuel use it as energy to make you a stronger and more resilient individual that's number 2 number 3 um.

17:25.46
Terry Tucker
I Think it's important for all of us regardless of what stage of life. We're in to sort of look at the end game. You know what are people going to say about you at your funeral. What do you want people to say about you at your funeral. Um.

17:32.81
karagoodwin
Um.

17:41.62
Terry Tucker
I have actually friends who actually read the obituary page in the newspaper or online every day for 2 reasons 1 to keep themselves humble and 2 to remind themselves that someday somebody's going to be reading their obituary when i. Had my leg amputated and I found out I had these tumors in my lungs I went with my wife to the mortuary and to the cemetery and to the church and I plan my funeral and because I go on podcasts and I do speaking engagements where I talk about motivation and the need to keep moving forward actually got some brushback from people who. Commented that somehow planning my funeral was in some way defeatist. You know I kind of had to remind these people that the last time I checked. We're all gonna die. Don't think anybody's working on a cure for life right now. I mean we're all gonna die. But we're not all going to really live.

18:22.80
karagoodwin
Um.

18:27.60
karagoodwin
Um, and.

18:35.20
karagoodwin
Um, oh Wow Oh say that again.

18:37.53
Terry Tucker
And I heard a native American That's I Yeah, all of us are going to die but not all of us are really going to live and I think that's pretty deep if you think about it I heard a native American blackfoot proverb years ago that I love and it goes like this.

18:51.92
karagoodwin
Um.

18:57.10
Terry Tucker
When you were born you cried and the world rejoiced live your life in such a way so that when you die the world cries and you rejoice That's what I want. That's what I'm looking for now don't get me wrong, not looking to hasten my demise in any way shape or form. But death isn't nearly as scary for me because I believed I lived the purpose for which I was put on this earth to do so that's number 3 and then number four I like I said I think it's pretty self-explanatory As long as you don't Quit. You can never be defeated but the way that resonates with me is this. Someday My pain is going to end you know man through surgery man through some kind of type of new medication. Quite frankly, a man when I die. But if I quit if I give up if I give into pain then pain will always be a part of my life.

19:47.16
karagoodwin
Wow! Thank you so much that is profound I mean the the and I love the and the clarity and the how it's condensed and it's easily. You know they're they're like short quick truths but they're they're very layered and they're very deep and so you know you could easily take one a week and just really kind of ruminate on them or meditate on them or or whatever and and um. You offer such a unique perspective with the situation that you find yourself in today because it's very easy for somebody who um, who isn't experiencing chronic pain or loss or ah. Disease you know that potentially you know where where you literally and like you say we're all. It's all death is on the horizon for all of us. But when we have a diagnosis that makes it feel like that comes closer to the present moment. Um, it. It offers us ah an opportunity to go you know defeatist or um, you know making us stronger and to help us fulfill our purpose and by the way um I do I'm tuned in to like.

21:20.29
karagoodwin
When something my body will give me like a yes when something is like really like cosmically true and when you said something about like that you know you're fulfilling your purpose I feel again right now it was like. Full tingles like full full resonance of like yes you're doing it. So um, for what that's worth you know? Well well done.

21:42.70
Terry Tucker
I Appreciate that you know it's a lot of times we talk about our you know our our purpose or our passion or our why or whatever you want to call it you know and we think of it as our job. You know what? whatever we're doing for a living that that's our and and and people get so caught up in that it's like.

21:54.60
karagoodwin
Are.

22:01.54
Terry Tucker
Um, not really happy at my Job. So I must not be and and your job doesn't have to be your purpose I mean your job can be something over here that you do to pay the bills but your purpose is over here to to write or to podcast host or to meditate or to teach or to whatever it is. And I always say especially to young people if there's something in your heart something in your soul that you believe you're supposed to do but it scares you go ahead and do it because at the end of your life. The things that you're going to regret are not going to be the things you did but gonna be the things you didn't do.

22:29.49
karagoodwin
Is.

22:39.11
Terry Tucker
And by then it's going to be too late to go back and duel.

22:42.36
karagoodwin
I Love that and I agree wholeheartedly when it comes to purpose I mean I had ah an experience or ah, a friend of mine who was doing like energy work and she was really like connecting with people and really helping to heal people. And she not that long ago decided to take a corporate job and it was just the the um the needs of her family like where her family was at that time necessitated a change and you know an increase in her income level. But. They're also like the the so everything was just falling into place really really easily and it was like this job came out of nowhere. It was like perfect with her past experience and the flexibility was there and did that and there was a part of her that was like but it doesn't feel like as purposeful. Mean I don't think she put it in that way but she was definitely hesitant like she was seeing the signs coming in and she realized that it was really kind of happening for her. You know like it was just kind of like the puzzle pieces were coming in for her to just step in and say yes, but it's like who knows. What a person like that in that particular organization can do for the other people who are there working you know to have this amazing anchor of light that's in you know, sitting at a cubicle or where you know I'm I don't know she might be working from home. But but.

24:11.89
karagoodwin
At least metaphorically sitting in a cubicle kind of ticking the boxes and following a project plan and and whatever it is again I'm totally making that up. But I'm I'm going back to my corporate experience. But but you know having like it's not ah so often. It's not about the the.

24:21.11
Terry Tucker
Um, right.

24:30.82
karagoodwin
You know what makes up your day to day job and and it can be that there would not be another way to as deeply impact the lives of the people that we be surrounded by even though it might on the surface not look like it's a job of service. You know that it may look more like a practical you know, 9 to 5 job. But it's like wow just to be able to have the courage and the trust to say okay, this is what's presenting but it seems counterintuitive. It feels like I I stepped away from this for growth and now like am I going backwards or whatever. So. You know it's really like we. It's important to trust and I love this broader picture that you're talking about of seeing our purpose with a bigger, a bigger scope. You know it pulled back like. Life purpose and and everything that our life offers us and not feeling like only those who are serving in this particular way are making a difference.

25:33.74
Terry Tucker
I think you make ah a huge point and I think it's an it's an incredibly good point and as you were talking a story was coming to my mind I have ah I had a nurse who when I first met her. She's about my daughter's age showed you know 25 26 already a nurse but was in training in the unit where I get my infusions every third week and a couple months ago she was taking care of me by herself and she said to me you know Terry I've got a story I want to tell you but I'm a little uncomfortable saying that to you and I mean and you know what do you say to something like that. You know it's like well it's. Sounds like might be a good story I'd love to hear it. But you've got to decide you want to you want to tell me and she said came back a couple hours later and she said all right here's the deal. She said when I first met you she said I was going to get out of nursing. She said I had had a good friend of mine die I was in a really dark place. I talked to my mom and dad I was gonna quit nursing and I was gonna go to work for Amazon and she said and then I met you and I see what you go through I see all the ugliness that you go through I read your story and I knew I was where I was supposed to be now if she would have never told me that story. I would have had no idea that my life had had a positive impact on her like that and and I always wonder you know how many people are out there that just for one day would give everything they have to trade places with us.

26:59.95
Terry Tucker
You know they're they're kind of admiring us from our on far on far and and just sort of looking at you know I want to be like him or I want to be like her and I I sort of think back. There's ah, there's an entrepreneur guy by the name of Ed Millet he talks about the 4 types of people in the world. He said there's the the unmotivated which is the vast majority of people in the world and then there's the motivated and and that's kind of you know, sort of a stick in a carrot thing. You know if you do this then then this will happen. He said then there's the inspirational people you know and inspirational comes from in spirit.

27:25.84
karagoodwin
Is.

27:37.70
Terry Tucker
You know their spirit but sort of lights the way for other people and then there's aspirational people where you just live your life and people sort of gravitate to you based on your energy or how you conduct yourself or or you know what you're saying or things like that.

27:38.00
karagoodwin
Um.

27:56.66
Terry Tucker
And I think back on that I think you know I want to be that I would I would like to be an aspirational type of person. But when I was growing up. There was a basketball coach at Ucla who had a great quote that kind of goes along with this and it went like this a careful person I want to be. A little person follows me I dare not go astray for fear. They may go the same way. So I I kind of like that. It's just like you know you you have to live your life based on what you're supposed to do and and I'm not saying you need to live somebody else's life.

28:21.36
karagoodwin
Are.

28:32.51
Terry Tucker
But I think we all need to sort of step back and think about the decisions we make not just how they impact us. But how they potentially may impact other people and even other people that we even have no idea who those people are.

28:45.18
karagoodwin
Yeah,, that's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that it's really powerful and I love Also just the the kind of um passive Guidance. You know this kind of again like the Trust. Of the universe of that we're gonna you know that the right people will find us even if we never know you know that kind of takes the the pressure off of you know like okay I've got to put myself in the right places and and so on so that's really powerful. Well I have enjoyed this immensely. How can people find out more about you or connect with you.

29:26.47
Terry Tucker
So I have a blog every day I put up a thought for the day and with that thought usually comes a question about maybe how you could apply it into your life on Mondays I put up the Monday morning motivational message which is ah a video or a story that I find that I think has meaning to people. All that including my social media networks you can leave me a note you can get access to my book. It's all at motivationalcheck.com.

29:51.10
karagoodwin
Okay, wonderful. Well oh and I did and I mentioned your book but um, but do you want to tell us a little bit I I forgot to come back to that So your book is sustainable excellence and is this a memoir or.

30:05.38
Terry Tucker
In it's in some ways. It's a memoir in some ways. It's not it was really a book born out of 2 conversations I had 1 was with a former player that I had coached who had moved to Colorado where my wife and I live and the four of us had had dinner one night and

30:07.31
karagoodwin
More of a guidance book.

30:23.53
Terry Tucker
I remember saying her after dinner I'm really excited that you're living close and I can watch you find and live your purpose and she got real quiet for a while and she looked at me and she's like well coach. What do you think my purpose is I said I have no idea what your purpose is but that's what your life should be about finding the reason you were put on the face of this earth. Using your unique gifts and talents and living that reason and then I had a young man who reached out to me the the second sort of story ah around the book was he asked me what I thought were the most important things he should learn not to just be successful in his job or in business but to be successful in life and I didn't want to give him the. You know, get up early work hard help others not that those aren't important. Those are incredibly important but I wanted to see if I could go deeper with them and so eventually I came up with these 10 principles and I sent them to them and then I kind of stepped back and I was like well you know I got a life story that fits underneath that principle or I know somebody whose life. Emulates this principle so literally during the time I was healing after my leg was amputated and before I started chemo for the tumors in my lungs I sat down at the computer every day and I built stories and they're real stories about real people underneath each of the principles. And that's how sustainable excellence the 10 principles to leading your uncommon and extraordinary life came to be.

31:40.61
karagoodwin
Wow and they can get that on your but on your website.

31:45.13
Terry Tucker
They can get it on the website. They can pretty much get it anywhere. You can get a book online Amazon barnes and noble.comappleibooks I've also started a membership around the book. So you can go to sustainable excellence membership dot com and download a free copy of the book if you. You don't want to spend the money for it. But you still want to read it.

32:03.97
karagoodwin
Okay, beautiful. Well Terry this has really been a beautiful connection. Thank you so much for your time and and many blessings on you know your continued journey and healing.

32:19.49
Terry Tucker
Well Kara thank you I can use all the healing I can get and you know I know you're all about energy and that so anything you could send my way would be greatly appreciated.

32:28.97
karagoodwin
Yes, absolutely.

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