207. The Enlightenment Project - Jonathan Robinson

Listen here

Is enlightenment what we think it is?

Is following a guru the right path for spiritual seekers?

Jonathan Robinson is the author of the new book, The Enlightenment Project. Over the past 40 years, he has interviewed some of the most influential spiritual leaders of our time, including the Dalai Lama, Ram Dass, and Mother Teresa, and has been a frequent guest on The Oprah Show. In this episode, we talk a lot about enlightenment - what it is (you might be surprised!), common misconceptions, how people get there, what tracks often do NOT lead there, and so much more!

• The different levels and types of enlightenment, and examples of methods which do or do not lead to it.
• The pros and cons of the guru-disciple relationship, and whether it still serves a purpose in modern life.
• What is the risk of getting too comfortable in our spiritual seeking?
• What do many spiritual masters have to say about the purpose of life?
• Jonathan shares a fascinating, mysterious story that defies logic.

theenlightenmentproject.net

Podcast: Awareness Explorers

00:00.00
karagoodwin
Hello and welcome to the meditation conversation I'm your host Kara Goodwin and today I am joined by Jonathan Robinson Jonathan is a psychotherapist bestselling author of 14 books. And a professional speaker from Northern California he's spent more than 40 years studying the most practical and powerful methods for personal and spiritual growth over the years he's interviewed some of the most influential spiritual leaders of our time including the Dalai Lama ram dos and mother Teresa and he's been a frequent guest on the Oprah show which is fabulous. His latest book is called the enlightenment project which I am enjoying immensely. So welcome Jonathan! Thank you so much for being here today. So as I mentioned I'm loving the enlightenment project your latest book. Can you talk about the inspiration for it.

00:55.75
Jonathan Robinson
I'm looking forward to it. This will be fun.

01:07.77
Jonathan Robinson
Yeah, you know Ah um, many years ago. There was a book called the happiness project about a woman who tried all the positive psychology methods to see if she could be happier I realized that I've been kind of on a similar quest to find how to be enlightened. So I've interviewed over 100 spiritual teachers. You know, ranging from the Dalai Lama and Deepak Chora to ah Byron Katie Ajahanti if you heard of them I probably interviewed them I have a podcast called awareness explorers where I interview such people and I wanted to find out what actually works. You know, kind of like the greatest hits and share some of the stories of what it's like to be around these people and some of them became friends of mine which I'm um, happy to say and ah you know it's been a wild ride I've had an unusual life I wanted to share kind of the best information because a lot of people have told.

01:44.12
karagoodwin
Each.

02:03.59
Jonathan Robinson
Ah, wrong ideas about enlightenment or how to get there.

02:05.89
karagoodwin
yeah yeah I well I mean I wanted to so I wanted to talk about enlightenment because I think the common understanding is that 1 is either enlightened or not and that enlightenment is reserved for those who have completely immersed.

02:18.25
Jonathan Robinson
The heart.

02:24.70
karagoodwin
Themselves and only in only spiritual living such as a Tibetan Monk you know is kind of the the standard example and in your book you talk about levels of enlightenment which I found really intriguing and insightful. So can you talk about.

02:30.17
Jonathan Robinson
Um, between.

02:40.14
karagoodwin
The like just talk about levels of enlightenment rather than the on off enlightenment. You know.

02:44.49
Jonathan Robinson
Yeah, sure you know, only in the last fifteen years has it been studied a lot scientifically and when they studied it. They realized that there's really like 4 or 5 different types of enlightenment you know and some of them. Your average person might touch on for a few minutes here and there you know you're watching a sunset and you're fully immersed in it and you feel like 1 with your environment. Well a lot of people have had that experience for a few minutes but some enlightened people have that all the time. Some enlightened people are in a state of pure love all the time. So there's levels. There's different types and there's different methods that lead to the different types. So what the science has revealed is that some methods like Hatha yoga or certain meditation methods. Almost never lead to enlightenment and other methods which are not very known lead to it very consistently for people who might do it for like a month. So this really blew everybody away because it was unexpected.

03:44.42
karagoodwin
With me more to.

03:53.45
Jonathan Robinson
So in in the enlightenment project book I tried to describe the methods that show consistently seem to work really well at least for giving glimpses of enlightenment if not persistent enlightenment.

04:04.98
karagoodwin
So what would be sort of the the deciding factor that would tip the scales as to whether you know because when you're talking about scientific research. There are boundaries within like you know we have to have guardrails to know what we're measuring.

04:21.14
Jonathan Robinson
Me.

04:23.34
karagoodwin
So what would be like the the measurements that would be used to determine to determine. So if you're saying for example, the methods that don't actually lead to enlightenment. What is this the state that they're measuring that by.

04:38.98
Jonathan Robinson
Yeah, well there's a lot of measures called emg which is muscle tightness. There's ah Eeg. There's been shown that certain brainwave patterns. Ah the most advanced monks seem to consistently have and. If you can find your way to that brainwa pattern you're probably feeling pretty good which tends to associate with feelings of bliss and love and deep peace so often advanceee eeg machines but there are also self-report you know? um.

05:08.78
karagoodwin
Fuck And yeah.

05:11.64
Jonathan Robinson
How does it feel to be in this state and somebody says this feels amazing. Let's you know whatever I can do to stay here. Let's do that. So it's a combination of various measurements but there is no one view that this is you know the state of enlightenment I think we all go into.

05:16.47
karagoodwin
Yeah, ah.

05:29.84
Jonathan Robinson
Higher and lower states of consciousness throughout our life. The question is really what method or idea will help you take the next step to have that be more consistent and now there's research that shows that you know this works and that doesn't.

05:41.91
karagoodwin
And.

05:49.97
karagoodwin
It's so interesting I love also how you address spiritual seeking in your book because one of the things that I was a little bit dubious about at first was the fact that. And there's so many gurus that are mentioned kind of in your book and in in the kind of leading up to as you get going in it and I I have mixed feelings about the guru disciple framework and in this day and age.

06:07.55
Jonathan Robinson
Um.

06:19.17
karagoodwin
And and but very early in your book you address this relationship and the changing needs of humanity in terms of gurus. So and you have your own experience of of following a guru for over twenty years so can you tell us a little bit about your thoughts and experiences with gurus.

06:37.10
Jonathan Robinson
Yeah, you know there's an upside and downside to that. Um, the upside is that you know it used to be that they were the only ones that had the secret knowledge now a lot of people. Do you can find it on the internet. Um, so.

06:50.13
karagoodwin
Um, so.

06:50.98
Jonathan Robinson
The use of gurus isn't quite as important as it used to be but you know just like if you're trying to learn tennis. You know you probably want to find somebody who's a great tennis player and they can give you a bunch of tips. So I think of it the same way your guru doesn't have to be. The most famous teacher in the world. It might be somebody who just inspires you my first guru with my seventh grade english teacher you know or my uncle and later I I met all the other famous gurus and some of them worked for me some of them didn't there's one guru I spent over 20 years with and.

07:18.35
karagoodwin
Um.

07:27.78
Jonathan Robinson
He was incredibly helpful of nothing else for kicking my butt and making sure I didn't just rest on my laurels. So there's different types of gurus. But you know if you think of it in terms of.

07:35.76
karagoodwin
Um.

07:39.95
Jonathan Robinson
Can I find somebody who inspires me who knows a little bit more about meditation than I do or who knows a little bit more about relationships than I do or knows a little bit more about opening your heart than I do then I think you can avoid some of the pitfalls of just following somebody and becoming a follower which isn't. Generally a good idea.

08:02.80
karagoodwin
Um, yeah I Love that I mean I I am I have seen you know it of late you know and in relatively speaking but the guru thing you know is. It gets tossed around a lot in terms of people you know, putting that hat on and then it's you know, very intriguing to get you in to get you in the door and then you know it's actually a destructive um relationship which is something that we have to be.

08:23.55
Jonathan Robinson
Um, yeah.

08:33.99
karagoodwin
On guard 4 you know which is it's really a shame that so often spiritual teachings are are used in that way because it's very tricky. You know you're really vulnerable and you're kind of handing yourself over in trust of like oh this is somebody who's inspiring me and they.

08:43.50
Jonathan Robinson
And then.

08:52.61
karagoodwin
They seem further down the path and and um so we you know in that vulnerable state. You know there's this submission that happens that um can be taken advantage of So I know one of the things too that as I'm listening to your book I'm I'm.

09:02.35
Jonathan Robinson
Um, yeah.

09:12.52
karagoodwin
Picking up on this curiosity within you and this encouragement of people to not stay Stagnant. You know to really kind of be in the driver's seat of their own seeking and exploring. Um you know I've had. I Think my first sort of step onto a a path you know of nontraditional because we've got like the religious upbringing that you just sort of fall into ah when you're born that it's like okay well I guess this is what God is because this is what my family's doing you know that kind of thing.

09:38.49
Jonathan Robinson
Where.

09:46.25
Jonathan Robinson
Yeah.

09:49.16
karagoodwin
And I know that you've had that too. You were born jewish and then through your guru you had a lot of exposure even to christianity and um, but when I came outside of traditional kind of religion. My first kind of teachings. Were following a long deceased guru so it was an organization that was sort of built around a guru that had already left the body and it really really served me for a year or two years or I can't remember.

10:09.24
Jonathan Robinson
That.

10:23.36
karagoodwin
Um, but for a really important period of time where it really helped me to like build this foundation and get like this this solid footing from meditation methods and um and philosophies and kind of. But Concepts ways to ways to pray ways to chant ways to you know all of these things and it really helped to build me out and then what was what I found was happening is that there was this continuous rehash of the same thing over and over.

10:54.58
Jonathan Robinson
Then? okay.

11:00.20
karagoodwin
And the the organization kept saying you know it's okay if you really feel like you're getting to know these teachings like if they're feeling repetitive. That's okay because you will continue to get there's depth within it. So as you as you advance they will mean new things to you which is true and.

11:15.67
Jonathan Robinson
Yeah.

11:20.40
karagoodwin
I Kept kind of coming up against this like it just feels dry like it's not it just lost that kind of um where it was quenching my thirst it was like oh here we go again I I All read you know we'd have a sat song or whatever and it's like I already kind of can.

11:30.20
Jonathan Robinson
Yeah.

11:37.93
karagoodwin
See the threat of where we're going to end up by the end of this and I ended up leaving that organization. Um, because it I recognized when it had served its purpose and for me, it felt like if I'm going to keep growing this huge vast universe that. Has so much to explore and I don't necessarily want to just keep drilling in the same Well you know until but yeah I mean but if that is serving.

12:06.92
Jonathan Robinson
And.

12:13.60
karagoodwin
Then you know we all have these unique Journeys but but that's I don't know if that resonates with you but I thought.

12:17.63
Jonathan Robinson
Yeah, you bring up a really important point and that is that we often get comfortable in our spirituality. But I think spirituality is really about expanding our boundaries going into new territory. Ah, Jashanti said spirituality should be a constant discovery of new things and it's very easy to get caught up in oh my friends are here. This is more like a social club now and that is unfortunate. That's why I give people a lot of different ideas.

12:46.76
karagoodwin
Football and unfortunate.

12:54.57
Jonathan Robinson
And methods in the enlightenment project because I think you have to keep it fresh and that's hard to do, especially if you're in the same system for 20 years um so I often suggest. Well what are you looking for now. What would be you know there's a lot of things. There's opening the heart. There's being more.

13:00.72
karagoodwin
Um, yeah.

13:14.10
Jonathan Robinson
Ah, sensitive to energy. There's deeper connection with God or some guru there's being ah a more peaceful person where you can literally enter into deep peace whenever you want. There's a lot of possibilities. This is a smorgas board out there and and.

13:31.50
karagoodwin
Um, yeah.

13:32.98
Jonathan Robinson
Different systems tend to be better at certain things than others. You know some teachers are very intellectual if you're trying to open your heart in that system good luck because you know it's more of an intellectual system and the opposite's true. You might want more understanding of the universe but you're in a devotional system. That's probably not going to do much for you.

13:40.57
karagoodwin
Yeah, yeah.

13:52.35
Jonathan Robinson
So you really have to decide. What is it that I'm looking for at this point and who might know a lot about that and what do I need at this point you know people are often using methods from two thousand years ago but nobody's using um a computer from even twenty years ago why are we using methods from two thousand years ago you know there's a lot of great methods that people aren't even aware of that have only been invented in the last five years you know I used to have a hard time meditating and then I found a method that.

14:18.95
karagoodwin
E.

14:26.90
Jonathan Robinson
Was only invented in the last five years that puts me into bliss like right away so you know I'm glad I know that now because banging my head against a wall trying to stop my thoughts just didn't work for me.

14:31.97
karagoodwin
Um, yeah, he won.

14:37.71
karagoodwin
Yeah, well, what do you have to say about the because I I'm in your book. There's a point point where you were talking about the you know the intellectual like approaching spirituality from for more of a mental intellectual state and then.

14:54.64
Jonathan Robinson
Um, you.

14:57.17
karagoodwin
Versus that like moving into the heart when it's like okay either. This is a natural resonance for me like oh I'm more of a devotional person. So this lineage or these teachings are going to resonate with me more. They's just going to feel like home.

15:05.44
Jonathan Robinson
My.

15:11.20
Jonathan Robinson
Um, yeah.

15:12.90
karagoodwin
Home base. You know where it's like okay well this is like low hanging fruit for me I can take it deeper and get more expanded in my heart field but I don't I'm very comfortable in this space versus okay I am a very intellectual person I'm already in the Mind. So I. Don't necessarily need to approach it from that angle I Want to go someplace where I'm maybe like not so Strong. You know what? I mean what? What do you think about doing that you know that do you follow? what? you're do you lean into where you're comfortable or do you expand more into.

15:37.42
Jonathan Robinson
Um, yeah.

15:48.91
Jonathan Robinson
Ah.

15:51.19
karagoodwin
Develop more underdeveloped areas within you.

15:54.42
Jonathan Robinson
Yeah, it's a great question I I would say at first when you're starting a path um do what is comfortable for you where it might be your strong suit might be intellect might be heart might be body. Um, but after a while. I think it's best to work on your weak Leg. So I'm very intellectual. So after a while I focused more on heart centerered practices and then after a bunch of years doing that I realized my weak leg now was body centered practices. So.

16:25.45
karagoodwin
And.

16:28.37
Jonathan Robinson
Um, start with your strong leg and then expand into the things that would help you be a more expanded person and the fact that now I feel a lot of love or I feel really connected in my body which I did twenty years ago feels fantastic and allows me to better serve people. Because I'm coming from a more full embodied approach rather than just a mental approach.

16:51.47
karagoodwin
Yeah I love that I love too just again that the evolution like letting your practice be a living practice you know and and staying open to what's coming in and what's going to serve and.

17:01.20
Jonathan Robinson
E.

17:10.00
karagoodwin
You know there's like like breath work for instance for me Personally, that's something that I'll get like really and I'll I'll it'll start hitting me from multiple places and I'm like okay need to need to up my breath work. You know I can tell that.

17:21.97
Jonathan Robinson
May not.

17:25.12
karagoodwin
Something that's going to serve and I'm kind of in that space right now where I'm like rediscovering breathwork and because it was something that I was really diligent with for a while and then I think I I think it was when I had like a something kind of coming that was a little off balance in my ah. Respiratory System. So I was like well I better kind of put that aside until that heals. But um and now I'm like oh my gosh. Yes, you know I'm I'm like re attuned to it and it was such a gift that I had. Had that break because then like coming back to it. It's fresh again rather than in the same with like if that for me I like to have an established meditation practice and I try to keep that um, consistent. And I may bring new elements into it or be working on different things at different times but I for for me, it seems very important to keep that daily meditation but there might be other people and I've talked to other people who they're like well if I keep meditating kind of day after day after day without. Any break then it starts to be.. It has less and less meaning. So it's it is just our practices are dynamic in that Way. So honoring that dynamic nature of it. You know like you're saying it keeps it from getting dry. It keeps it fresh which is so important.

18:37.64
Jonathan Robinson
Ah.

18:52.65
karagoodwin
It's a living thing.

18:52.87
Jonathan Robinson
Um, one of the things I did I used to meditate for an hour a day for a lot of years and then I realized I wasn't integrating the piece of meditation so much into my life. So now instead of meditating for an hour I meditate for about. Ah. 40 minutes but I do it at 2 minutes at a time. So I take like 22 minute breaks during the day and I find that that leads to my life being much more peaceful while doing all the things that we have to do.

19:17.80
karagoodwin
I.

19:26.26
karagoodwin
Yeah I love that I mean it's it is this Ah you know what are we meditating for it's it's not to tick the box of meditation to be like okay I did it anymore. So then you know. You're going to then becoming a spiritual master by putting your butt in a pew. You know every so Sunday or Saturday or um, you know if you're just there to like tick the box. It's like you you get out of it what you put into it but having that. Um.

19:46.93
Jonathan Robinson
Um.

19:54.32
Jonathan Robinson
Um, yeah.

20:00.40
karagoodwin
You know if you meditate once or twice a day for a few minutes at a time and then you get up off of the cushion and it's like you know you're you're just running a thousand miles an hour through your life and not really ever again reflecting on yourself beyond the physical. Um. You know we have opportunities to incorporate that feeling that we get in meditation but throughout the day and that can be that can be difficult to kind of remember oh yeah, more than my body I'm more than my to do list more than my thoughts you know, but. Um, over time ideally, then you know this is the fruit of the meditation that we can whether we're taking like deliberately taking 2 minute breaks throughout the day or we're just tuning in more and more just for a few moments to be like oh yes, remember who I am you know is. Is really powerful. Yeah well um, can you talk about some of the and you you sort of touched on this a little bit but some of the common myths around enlightenment.

20:57.83
Jonathan Robinson
Ah.

21:07.93
Jonathan Robinson
Well you mentioned that you know a lot of people see as a on or off thing. But in reality we go into any moment where you are feeling deep peace or are aware of awareness or you feel merged with your environment is a moment of enlightenment. Where you're not looking at the world through the lens of the ego and you know that can happen. You don't need to even do spiritual work for 30 years you could just relax into this moment you know and hopefully have a moment like that the question then becomes. What's in the way of that so that becomes part of your spiritual path looking for the obstacles looking for the childhood traumas that you haven't processed things like that. Um, but you know enlightenment doesn't solve your problems either. You know you you still have relationship issues money issues. You're just coming at from ah less of a ego-based wave dealing with life and more like you're just present. You're a presence of love in this moment and as you learn to extend those moments. You become a better servant of of humanity. Really. You know I asked 100 spiritual leaders. What the purpose human life was and they all said basically the same thing find the love and peace inside yourself and once you have that to some extent go out and help the world. So you know it's really a matter of trial and error finding people who.

22:43.85
Jonathan Robinson
And methods that inspire you that you can do the first you know you find some peace and love and then you're in a very good position to see what's needed in front of you.

22:53.14
karagoodwin
I love that. Thank you can you think of of 1 piece of advice that would be helpful to any spiritual seeker who's listening right now anything that come to mind.

23:08.70
Jonathan Robinson
Well I asked that of a lot of teachers one piece of advice I think is that um, it's good to have what I call an experimental attitude like I'm going to try this for a week or a month to see what it does for me, you know.

23:11.24
karagoodwin
Um.

23:24.78
Jonathan Robinson
You can't really learn about these things from reading just a book you have to try different methods different teachers put yourself in their way for like a week or a month and then see what effect it has on you and and when it doesn't have any effect on you. That's a success. You know not to do that.

23:42.66
karagoodwin
Yeah.

23:44.23
Jonathan Robinson
You know you know to try something else. Everything's available Now. So um, start with the greatest hits like I mentioned in my book and see if those work for you and always have that that sense like maybe the next. Great thing is going to be around the corner like for example, as I said I struggle with meditation for a lot of years and then I read about meditation method where you just list all the people you've ever appreciated or loved and for me.

24:17.30
karagoodwin
Um, oh I Love this? Yes, this was fascinating. Ah.

24:19.20
Jonathan Robinson
Yeah, for me that was like 50 people and so I made a list of all the people I've ever appreciated or loved and and then I spend like 1 minute thinking about what I appreciate and love about them and and feeling my love and connection towards them. And then sending them some love and then going on to next person. Well you do that for 40 people you're like bathing yourself in love and when um I was at Stanford and they did an eeg of me in that state they they were saying like what the hell are you doing now we've. These are the most enlightened brain waves of any westerner we've ever seen right? right? They thought the machine wasn't working and.

24:56.87
karagoodwin
Um, well they thought it wasn't working right? Yeah yeah.

25:05.38
Jonathan Robinson
Now it's not that I'm a great meditator anytime I tried other meditation methods they were like well yeah, it doesn't look impressive at all. But when I did that particular method they was like oh my God This is off the charts and so you know sometimes just experimenting.

25:17.28
karagoodwin
Yes.

25:23.29
Jonathan Robinson
And and trying stuff you might find something that really resonates for you and it doesn't you don't need to spend 20 years you might be able to experience something very profound tomorrow.

25:37.42
karagoodwin
Yeah, can you build out that um, that practice a little bit more because the the background of that particular practice is fascinating. Can you tell a little bit of the history of that.

25:48.82
Jonathan Robinson
Yeah, there was a guy named Lester Levinson who ah was after a severe heart attack told that he was going to die your heart was so damn bad, badly damaged. There's nothing. We can do. So he figured on his last couple days of life. He would focus on people. He loved and remember times that he felt connected to them. Well lo and behold as he did this. He didn't die. In fact, he started to be filled with energy and within a month he's like running twenty miles a day and he told his doctors that this is going on his doctor said we told you not even to tie your own shoes because you'd probably die, you know and here he's running twenty miles well long story short he lives another 45 years and he invents something called the sedona method which is a great method.

26:22.70
karagoodwin
Um, that's incredible.

26:38.45
Jonathan Robinson
For letting go of negative emotions. But what got him to be ah, an enlightened master was just this meditation ah of of focusing on love and feeling love and it transformed him and I find when I do it it transforms my day because when you bathe yourself in love that Deeply. There's an energy.. There's a frequency you know to some extent spiritual teachers say that is our nature to be pure love and to dip yourself in that so deeply ah really affects your your consciousness. Very profoundly.

27:06.65
karagoodwin
And.

27:14.91
karagoodwin
Right? Yeah I mean it builds up this beautiful energy in the heart I mean the way that I see it for lack of a better word is just you know building building building and it's just like. You know you become encapsulated in this high frequency love vibe and your brain is swimming in it and you've got that brain heart coherence and um and then that is like affecting your external reality as well because it's it's.

27:39.32
Jonathan Robinson
Ah.

27:46.96
karagoodwin
Radiating from you too. So I mean it's yeah.

27:49.70
Jonathan Robinson
Yeah, people like to hang out with that amount of love you know when when I'm in that state. Ah you know people just gravitate towards me and miracles start happening because you're in a higher vibration.

28:00.70
karagoodwin
Um, right? So that's that's fascinating that you get that reflection from the external and then you add to it the the physical healing that what that happened with Lester. Um, that is just.

28:12.49
Jonathan Robinson
Yeah.

28:17.50
karagoodwin
It's so profound. It's just amazing I mean how mysterious is this place. It's so mysterious. Yes, so cool. Um.

28:17.99
Jonathan Robinson
And her.

28:24.14
Jonathan Robinson
Um, very.

28:30.75
karagoodwin
Do you would you like to share a little bit I know you've kind of um had a lot of like because you've been immersed in this for so long. Um I know that you have some like miracle. You know some stories around miracles and and magic would.

28:45.89
Jonathan Robinson
Um.

28:46.47
karagoodwin
Does anything come to mind that you'd like to share it I find that stuff so inspirational.

28:51.36
Jonathan Robinson
Well early in my journey I Found those things very inspirational as evidence like there's a lot more than going on the meetsy eye. Um later I said you know? okay I now know that so I don't need to collect these stories but um, recent story which really tweaked my brain. Um.

28:59.36
karagoodwin
Um.

29:05.40
karagoodwin
Ah.

29:09.35
Jonathan Robinson
Sometimes electronic things go weird around me and and and I've never known why. Ah, but recently I was recording a song called letting go on my phone at my desk right here and I heard ah a pluk.

29:26.21
Jonathan Robinson
And I thought my iphone had dropped to the floor. Ah but I couldn't find it. You know how far could it go I haven't moved so I'm looking for my iphone and finally I I have the thought maybe I will call my phone from my landline so I can find it So I call my phone I hear it ringing. And it ends up I Follow the ring and it's in my closet in a lockbox. Yeah, it's in my closet in a lockbox now I have no clue how I got there but the song I was writing was how.

29:51.34
karagoodwin
What.

30:00.76
karagoodwin
Um, ah.

30:03.81
Jonathan Robinson
Um, we always think we know what's going on and there's more than meets the eye going on. You should just let go and appreciate and you know some some force some poulter guys some ghost I don't know I have no clue ah found my phone and decided to put it thirty feet away in a lockbox.

30:21.42
karagoodwin
Oh my god.

30:23.70
Jonathan Robinson
And you know I've I've had maybe a dozen of those things happen in my life that was the most recent one it just made my mind like you know there was steam coming on my ears I'm trying to figure out I go. Okay, there's no explanation I don't know you know and we really don't know how anything works so I will.

30:36.48
karagoodwin
You have it.

30:42.50
Jonathan Robinson
Give you an explanation how that happened and how iphones work and everything is through something called Pfm. Do you know what? Pfm is it stands for pure freaking magic and when you get down to it. That's how a lot of things work.

30:49.30
karagoodwin
No.

30:56.43
karagoodwin
Ah, yes, oh my gosh. Well thank you for sharing that. That's so fascinating and funny I mean I don't know how it felt in the moment but there was some mischievous.

31:04.70
Jonathan Robinson
Um, yeah, funny.

31:09.97
Jonathan Robinson
Um, yeah, absolutely.

31:11.20
karagoodwin
Funny energy that ah was was playing with you there. That's hysterical. Well how can people find out more about your books and working with you and so forth.

31:22.28
Jonathan Robinson
Well I do have a website the enlightenmentproject dot net and when people go there. They get a free chapter of the book and my five favorite methods for quieting the mind quickly and an ebook. Ah, guided meditation about those 5 methods because I think that a lot of these methods are brand new people. Don't know about them and they work really? well. So ah, they can go to the enlightenmentproject dot net. Um I also have a a podcast called Awareness Explorers. Where people can listen to these interviews and connect with me that way So those are are some of the ways that people can connect.

32:07.83
karagoodwin
Ah, wonderful. Well this has been so it's been enlightening and it's been a lot of fun. Thank you so much Jonathan thank you for the work that you're doing to help advance people along their paths. And and thank you for being here today. Thank you.

32:25.30
Jonathan Robinson
My pleasure Great questions.

Listen here