222. Your Pet, Your Mental Health - Dr. Margit Gabriele Muller

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How are your pets helping your health?

Do pets help with depression and anxiety?

What is the research about pets and mental health?

Dr. Margit Gabriele Muller spent her childhood dealing with her mother’s schizophrenia, and her pet rabbit helped to give her stability and anchoring in those tumultuous times. Today, she works professionally as both a veterinarian and a master life coach to help animals and woman who are dealing with childhood trauma. 

• What are the differences among mental health coaching, inner dynamics, and psychotherapy?
• How does healing our past traumas help us to become more resilient when new traumas come up?
• What healing powers do pets have for humans?

Resources:

www.coachformentalhealth.com

Book: Your Pet Your Pill 

00:00.00
karagoodwin
So welcome Dr Margaret I'm so excited to have this conversation with you I've been looking forward to this.

00:06.63
Dr Margit
Thank you so much I'm honored to be on your podcast as a guest and I'm really looking forward to it I join you from Abu Dhabi in the United Arab emirates so I'm on the other side of the world. Let's say.

00:14.83
karagoodwin
Um, so where are you joining us from.

00:23.76
karagoodwin
Ah, wonderful I think um Abu Dhabi is one of the funnest countries to say it. It just set. It's fun Abu Dhabi like it's just fun.

00:37.78
Dr Margit
Ah, it is actually.

00:38.64
karagoodwin
Sounds are very, they're they just sound those words sound so good together I could say that all day. Um, so you have such a fascinating background with a lot of diverse areas of specialty. So I'd love to know how they flow together between.

00:42.41
Dr Margit
Is.

00:56.26
karagoodwin
Veterinary veterinary work and the people work. You know you work with with both so I'd love to know like which came first and are they both still focuses or is 1 kind of an older thing. You used to do or how does it all go together.

01:12.67
Dr Margit
Great question. Actually you can say the first part. It's actually the veterinary work because this really came first I've studied veterinary medicine in Germany and in France and in ah. 2001 I was invited to come to Abu D Abi to thefalcon hospital in nabud abi as a vegeinarian so I came here I was the first woman in this yeah male oriented Falconolt. So it was ah quite a big shock for the man here actually so it was very difficult in the beginning.

01:38.60
karagoodwin
And.

01:43.47
Dr Margit
And within half a year I became in charge of the Hospital. So I've been this ever since I've been running this hospital since that time and it has developed a lot from a very small yeah small tiny clinic to a world renowned institution. So That's how I started off and of course. My Love for animals was always there and I mean this is something that I have from my childhood when my mother got Sick. She's suffering from Schizophrenia It was my little rabbit who was my lifeline actually so this ah this love for animals was always there and it always has always carried me through.

02:09.72
karagoodwin
Oh wow.

02:18.60
Dr Margit
So through my veterinary career of course I've I've done so much with Enimma and it was just just beautiful. Actually so that's why I've written a book an award-winning book your pet your pill hundreded and one inspiration as stories about how pets lead you to a happy healthyy and successful life because they can do so much for us and then you know. The more I moved ahead. The more people started asking me. Can you help me with my problems and can you somehow get these things sorted out. So I somehow slowly went into this kind of coaching and I started with life coaching and it was really interesting. But. It wasn't let's say 100 % for me and then somehow you know I said it's it's not really the the perfect fit and then I went into mental health coaching and it was fascinating I mean we talk in your podcast a bit also about spirituality and you know these things how they flow. And for me when I signed up for my mental health coach training. It was amazing because I signed up on a Tuesday the course started on Friday which I didn't know and they had 1 single place left so there was only 1 slot left which was my slot so it was meant to be. Ah.

03:25.23
karagoodwin
Um, ah why Wow! yes.

03:31.34
Dr Margit
And it was just Fantastic. So I went into mental health coaching and I really love it because you can do so much with it and the resultss are amazing I specialized in inner dynamics and the change that you see in people once you help them through whatever. Problems they have and I specialize especially in in childhood Trauma. It is absolutely fascinating to see so now I'm still having the veinary side but it's a lot more coaching now and it's really going towards this direction because it is beautiful to see what you can do. And in the same time I'm also looking to combine the enemies with the coaching so in future I will be combining it with coaching with horses and coaching with enemies. Additionally, so I'm also a certified holistic Horse coach for for horse Guarded empowerment for people. So then it all comes together.

04:13.52
karagoodwin
Ah.

04:17.72
karagoodwin
Ah, wow you more.

04:26.93
Dr Margit
So it was a long way. But yeah, it all fits like a puzzle now which is beautiful to see.

04:32.90
karagoodwin
Yeah, yes I love that I mean I Love There's just this overarching. Um, what you know you're wanting to just help I mean this is the way that I see it where it's like.

04:42.27
Dr Margit
Yes, yeah.

04:45.95
karagoodwin
I've got these gifts to be able to help and sometimes those gifts you know are are used on animals and sometimes they're used for humans and sometimes they overlap but there's this you know, definitely a thread That's that's threat. You know, woven through all of that. So that's amazing.

04:56.23
Dr Margit
Yeah. Yes.

05:04.45
karagoodwin
I Definitely want to go back help me remember to go back to the Falconry. Um, but you mentioned the mental health coaching and I'd love to just have you explain a little bit about what that is because I would think like is that therapy is it is it. Psychology is it. Like what and what would be the difference.

05:24.49
Dr Margit
That's a good point because mental Health coaching is a very new part of life coaching. You can say the most advanced part of life coaching and it's really directly bordering to Psychotherapy So the difference between mental Health coaching and Psychotherapy is actually that.

05:33.82
karagoodwin
Move.

05:40.53
Dr Margit
When we look at psychotherapy or counseling. We talk about people who are diagnosed with clinical mental illness. So this is where mental health coaching stops so we talk with people and we treat people actually who have mental you can say mental health disorders. So not clinically cases. But those people who have mental health concerns mental health disorders and this is then where we stop. But what's the beauty of mental health coaching is that um I'm specialized in inner dynamic. So it's not just like a kind of talk therapy. You just. Talk and you um, from question and answer like in normal life coaching. It's completely different. It's a bit similar to internal family systems which means when we talk about inner dynamics we go really really deep which means you know sometimes you say just unconsciously. Ah, you know a part. Me would like to go to the movies. But another part of me is just lazy I want to be a couch potato today and I just switch on the tv so the moment you say one part of me wants to do this and another part wants to do that. You unconsciously say that you have different parts inside yourself that are actually.

06:54.99
karagoodwin
And War was less.

06:55.20
Dr Margit
In a conflict one part wants to do this the other one that so that's what we are working on in in a dynamics and mental health coaching so we are looking to identify those parts that you have and you can have you can have 5 you can have 10 you can have 20 you can have many it's changing also over time. And those parts are separated into parts that are trying to protect you they try to protect you from let's say a pain or hurt that you have experienced before. So this part doesn't want you to be hurt again. So it tries to really create a kind of protective shield around you. And those protector parts are actually yeah protecting other parts that had been hurt before maybe in your childhood when you experienced some kind of trauma or even in your your adulthood but something that's causing a real big pain for you. So those parts are very vulnerable. And in order to protect you to yeah to experience this pain and to feel it because this is really in your subconscious mind that's not anymore in your conscious mind so that's deeply engraved in your subconscious mind. That's why you have those protectors and that's what we do in a dynamics. We try to yeah to move a little bit. Those protector parts that we can access those wonderful parts that hold those deep burdens that hold this this pain and hurt and once we start accessing those then we can start to create a healing process for them and once we create a healing process then these.

08:18.63
karagoodwin
1

08:29.97
Dr Margit
Burdens are lifting. They lift from your heart. They lift from your shoulders and that's then the moment when the client says you know it's like it's like a stone is falling from my heart Some kind of Burden is falling from my heart. They can really feel it actually and that's that's really beautiful to see and once you come to this state Then. You can achieve this kind of inner peace because you reach to this most inner self where you are which means other people might call it soul you might call it inner self. It's this part. That's the deepest one and that's the true you that the real you without any layers Pure. You. And once you reach to the stage. It's a beautiful state of peace Kindness serenity and that's what we are doing in mental health coaching and the the impact you can have on the client is totally Amazing. You can really change their lives with it because you access this trauma and.

09:14.81
karagoodwin
In all this.

09:24.61
karagoodwin
Um, that's amazing. Yeah, it feels right? I wonder too If like as you're sort of like.

09:26.57
Dr Margit
You can also heal it and that's the beauty of it and that's usually something they're not even aware of because they just buried it in their subconscious mind but it affects them today.

09:42.79
karagoodwin
Feels almost like dissolving layers or dissolving like fractals of them. But it's also like as you're going into that very center point. It's maybe like creating pathways so that because as we so we we can do all that great work and then we keep living right? and then because we live.

09:45.37
Dr Margit
Yes.

10:02.70
karagoodwin
We continue to bump up against life like life's not going to stop So we're still going to get hit with things and that's one of the beautiful things about doing that self-work.

10:04.14
Dr Margit
PS.

10:14.50
karagoodwin
Is that? Okay, you clean up these Traumas you heal up those things but also perhaps it becomes easier to find those pathways to get like when you do get hit with different things like okay wait now I know how to go into my center I Know how to find that true.

10:23.35
Dr Margit
Yes.

10:30.66
Dr Margit
Yeah, exactly exactly and that's exactly the point that you mentioned it is first to heal the trauma or to access whatever Burdens are there in the subconscious mind but then also as you say to create an awareness how to reach to this.

10:32.56
karagoodwin
Spark of um.

10:49.80
Dr Margit
State of peace serenity and calmness to reach the inner self but also to become more resilient to start to understand once you face an obstacle or a problem or something really traumatic happens in your life and I mean we don't know what the future brings always something can come up and it might be difficult to. Overcome it. But this kind of of yeah mental health coaching helps you to first of all, you become more aware when you're in such a situation and you learn how to overcome it so you understand what's a trigger. For example, what is creating those problems for you. But also that's what we. You can say train more or less the client to find the way how to deal with it in a good way. Not to have again these heavy burdens and not to be so much hurt again and that's what we do in in mental health coaching we use in a dynamicams we use also and Nlp um ah tools and.

11:38.61
karagoodwin
And.

11:48.28
Dr Margit
It really it really? Yes, exactly it really makes a big difference for them and in the end and that's also for example, what I do with my my online coaching program. The the idea is to relieve the burdens but also to make the client more resilient and more empowered to deal with such situations in the future.

11:48.29
karagoodwin
Um, Neuro Linguistic programming are.

12:03.78
karagoodwin
And the situation and.

12:08.26
Dr Margit
And I think this is essentially if you want to live ah a happy life or a life where you can bear whatever comes in your way and I think I mean always something will come up. But at least you are able to deal with it and that's the idea of it.

12:14.73
karagoodwin
I am.

12:21.34
karagoodwin
Right? Yeah that's beautiful. Well um, let's talk about the animals and again still want to get to the falconry. But um, but you know your book is called your pet your pill and. I would just love to hear a bit about the amazing benefits of pets for humans I have 2 cats and a dog I'm a big big animal lover and when we lived abroad. Um from 2014 to 2018.

12:54.71
Dr Margit
Come.

12:54.72
karagoodwin
We didn't have pets we well we had we had to um, have caretakers for them so they had gone to other home because we had other we had pets when we left and they went to other homes while we lived abroad and then but that was a really I mean it was a beautiful time for its own reasons. But. We all I have a son and a daughter husband you know and we all really felt that void of like man 1 of the one of the benefits of when we move back will be that you know we'll have pets and it came up a lot with my kids like how soon after we move back to America can we get pets again and. And they just really add something I mean but I want to hear your you know you've done research and this is kind of your life. So please tell us about the benefits.

13:39.13
Dr Margit
Yes, I mean we always look at pets like you have a cat and you play with it and it's nice to have it in the home or you have a dog you go for a walk and you have a friend but there are so much more for us, but people are not really aware of it. So That's the reason Actually why I wrote this book. Because we need to open up our minds to the healing powers that pets have for us and I mean it's a big word but it's really true and it is really based on science and as you said I did a lot of research when I wrote my book and it is just fascinating when you look at it for example, like when we look At. Our mental health when we have a cat because you have cats they are improving our mental health in 87% of the cases. So if you have a cat already. It helps you to improve your mental health Even they have an impact on our endocrinology. For example, when you.

14:26.82
karagoodwin
Splam.

14:36.26
Dr Margit
Pet your cat or your dog just for three or five minutes you are excreting hormones which means dopamine or serotonin or oxytocine or endophins. These are the hormones that yeah make you happier. These are love hormones. These are well-being hormones. So just find. Minutes patting or caressing your pet will increase those hormones so the hormonal status is changing is improving and your physiology makes you actually feel better and this is absolutely amazing to see that this is proven by science. It's not just that we feel I feel better when I play with my cat.

15:03.70
karagoodwin
Scott is.

15:15.63
Dr Margit
Actually there is a real change in your body in the same time. It's not just this. They also help us with regards to social isolation or loneliness look at how many people feel Lonely nowadays you know the old days you had.

15:17.80
karagoodwin
On.

15:24.26
karagoodwin
So.

15:30.52
Dr Margit
Big families with grandmother grandfather parents children aunties uncles nowadays many people live alone in big city. Sometimes they don't even know their neighbors. But if they have a pet. They have first of all somebody who loves them unconditionally. But also when they go out for a walk with a dog. They are able to get in contact with other people. So it also helps in this respect and to come back to our mental health when we look for example at our cognitive function. It is scientifically approved that pets improve our cognitive function. For example, even in cases when people are suffering from alzheimer's or dementia just looking at a fish tank and it doesn't have always to be a dog and cat even a fish in a fish tank will improve their condition because they start focusing on this path. Their mind starts to work in a different way. They start to calm down a lot of those people who are pacing a lot. They start to calm down. They look at them the whole body starts to rest. So the changes are amazing and of course also you have physical benefits. For example.

16:35.86
karagoodwin
And.

16:42.37
Dr Margit
When you have a dog you live actually longer. That's approved as well. That's proven science. For example, if you have a heart attack. Let's say 1 year after a heart attack around people who have dogs only 3%

16:47.44
karagoodwin
Um.

17:00.53
Dr Margit
Will in the end pass away but without it's 27% so it's a big big difference. Even the health was jokes so that's what I mean it's not that we talk about some small changes or small numbers. They change your life fundamentally and they can make it so much better and.

17:04.21
karagoodwin
Um, Wow That's a big difference.

17:10.38
karagoodwin
No.

17:16.24
karagoodwin
When.

17:18.91
Dr Margit
That's also one of the reasons why I quote this book about to lead you to a happy healthy and successful Life. You are happier because of all the the Endocrineina chile changes that are happening you live healthier because there are so many has features like I mentioned now. But also you can become more successful because let's say most of the ceos. Had either pets as children or they have them while they're working so it improves the way how you deal with other people your communication you become yeah more aware of things. So Even the way how you deal at working with your family by fostering proper relationships. Are improved when you have pets and that's the beauty of it and this can be any kind of pets I'm not just focusing here on dogs and cats even a fish will help a tortoise a rapid a guinea Pig a bird anything and if we have aware of this. It will change the way how we look at pets and animals.

18:00.86
karagoodwin
That is.

18:11.19
karagoodwin
Um, you are.

18:14.73
karagoodwin
And that yeah I mean there's so much there. Thank you for for going through all of that and I think too like as you were speaking about it it. It also made me think of just the connection with nature and how removed we can be.

18:16.33
Dr Margit
And I think that's where we should reach.

18:32.87
karagoodwin
I mean I can imagine maybe in Abu Dhabi it's very desert like right? so so I mean I maybe it's even more so for you I don't know if if that like I don't know I just picture a desert environment. There's even less quote unquote less nature around. Maybe. But like for for many of us we spend so much time in our homes. Um, you know we're entering into the well we're in the autumn now and it's starting to cool off so all everybody where I am we're all aware like winter's coming. You know we're going to be inside a lot. Um, but having the animals. Ah you know.

19:05.82
Dr Margit
Yes.

19:08.77
karagoodwin
Really kind of has this automatic connection to nature which is also so important for us on on many levels that we we often aren't even aware of so that's wonderful.

19:17.49
Dr Margit
Yes, that's correct and also to add to this. They help us to become more grounded and to live more in the present and I think that is essential because.

19:23.42
karagoodwin
You.

19:29.50
Dr Margit
You know we are so much overwhelmed by technology nowadays. Everybody's on social media when you look at the news on Tv everything is devastating but when you have your animal and as I said it doesn't matter what kind of animal you have what kind of pet you have they help you to live in the present to forget all of this.

19:30.96
karagoodwin
Here on.

19:47.42
karagoodwin
Yeah.

19:47.97
Dr Margit
Chatter around you and just to focus and this is so liberating for your mind that this is just beautiful and this also helps to not just to yeah to improve your mental health. But also it helps with regard to mindfulness.

19:54.40
karagoodwin
It really is.

20:03.25
karagoodwin
Seeing him.

20:05.33
Dr Margit
And I think we should look at it really from those angles and that's what I say the benefits that pets have for us are amazing actually and and we should be much more aware of that and we should appreciate and cherish this much more.

20:12.20
karagoodwin
Yeah. Yeah I love that so with your work as a veterinarian I know you mentioned about the falconry. So do you focus a lot on birds of prey in particular falcons or is it also domestic animals I know you mentioned horses. Um I don't know with Falconry like if that's a specialization and then you go really deeply into that or or if it's broader.

20:43.91
Dr Margit
Yeah, actually the abu abi facon hospital is actually 2 hospitals 1 is the one for birds and avians and there is the second one for pets mainly dogs and cats and you know these these small small animals. I'm in charge of both of them. But I spent most of my time with falcons actually and some paras as well. Ficons are really different as you say it's not just like normal avian medicine you have to go really really deep because they look so huge and big and majestic and they are. But also they are extremely delicate. So this means as a veterinarian you have to have a kind of instinct of what's going on because you don't have a lot of time. For example, if they just eat some kind of wrong food. Ah they could actually.

21:17.38
karagoodwin
So.

21:33.67
Dr Margit
Pass away within another five six seven hours so you have to be very fast and accurate in your diagnosis. You need to start immediate treatment and the correct treatment. So that's why you need really to to have this feeling and I actually it's like.

21:45.70
karagoodwin
Um.

21:48.88
Dr Margit
I can sense when they have a problem I can see if I can sitting there and then I say to my team. You know I think there is a problem let us check this, Let us to an X-ray or a blood test or whatever and I always find something. It's some kind of maybe we can communicate. Maybe ah, it's It's just I can feel it actually.

22:01.47
karagoodwin
Um.

22:07.37
Dr Margit
Same with dogs and cats I can really sense it when there is a problem. Also it might not be obvious, you might not be able to see it they they really don't show symptoms but that's why it's interesting to work with falcons because they can even hide their symptoms until the very end because. Ah, so all icons here are coming from captive pleading centers. They still have the instinct of a wild Falcon. So this means in the wild they have to hunt and and fly and and really live until the very end they cannot just stop and say oh I'm not feeling well today. No they need to eat.

22:28.86
karagoodwin
Yeah.

22:41.14
Dr Margit
And that's the instinct that even a captive profile con has so it's It's really amazing. It's like you're a little detective and they are like children and who can't speak So so it's really fascinating to deal with animals.

22:45.57
karagoodwin
Wow.

22:53.91
karagoodwin
Oh that's amazing I mean I've always been really drawn to birds of prey and there there really is something I've seen three Bald Eagles this year which is I don't know that I'd ever seen any before um twice.

23:04.42
Dr Margit
Comma.

23:09.98
karagoodwin
1 flew right over my car and another one was near my house which was amazing and also my cat goes outside sometimes so I was like okay I want you to really enjoy this just stay over there from a distance. Don't come this way.

23:12.93
Dr Margit
Ah.

23:23.88
Dr Margit
Yes, that's safer. Ah.

23:27.25
karagoodwin
But um, yeah, and we have hawks a lot a lot of Hawks around here that catch my attention a lot. So um, but I don't have I don't falcons I don't know that we even have them around here in the wild but it's just amazing. Um, well.

23:30.68
Dr Margit
Yes.

23:44.20
karagoodwin
How can people find out more about you and learn about you know if they're interested in in mental Health coaching going down that path or talk again about your books.

23:56.00
Dr Margit
Yes, Well actually they can find me on my website wwwwwcoach for mentalhealth.com I have created a special course for business women and female entrepreneurs. That's an online course about making peace with your past ah because. And that's especially for women who are adult children of mentally Ill parents I mean I know it from myself. My mother suffered from Schizophrenia so it takes a long time to overcome this trauma I didn't have anybody to to help me with regards to therapy or coaching so I did it all on my own and it's a very hard work. So if you have special coaching in this respect it really helps because it affects your present life. It affects your relationships and the trauma is so deep and most of the time you're not even aware of it. So That's why I've created this course because I've seen so many women actually suffering from this problem.

24:41.58
karagoodwin
Move.

24:50.43
Dr Margit
And once you talk to them. They say oh my god yes, this is it's the stigma of the disease it is that I'm feeling that it was my fault I feel so guilty so in order to help them I have created this course and to can find it on the website in the same time It's interesting because we spoke about mindfulness before. Each course module is accompanied by a special meditation. So these meditations are yeah geared to help them for these specific topics. It's a three months course every week a different module and it should really help them to yeah to clear up these problems in ah in in a better way. So um I also host the mindfulness group where we do mindfulness and meditation and of course yes my my book your petchou pill. Um, it's also on the website you can also find it in Amazon and these are really really heart warming stories and.

25:36.13
karagoodwin
Um.

25:44.10
Dr Margit
People really like it. It has won a lot of awards in America actually. And yeah, it's beautiful, especially if you're an animal lover or you would like to have a pet I think it's a great way to go so you can find me on this and you can also find me on the social media. So everything is on coach for mental health.com

25:47.91
karagoodwin
Um, our one call.

26:02.77
Dr Margit
And I think it is really time to open up a bit more for mental health and mental health coaching because so many people are actually having mental health concerns nowadays and it starts now slowly that we start talking about these things because still there is a big stigma in this regard. So it's time to change that.

26:11.21
karagoodwin
See.

26:17.54
karagoodwin
Yeah.

26:22.36
Dr Margit
And also it's not wrong to ask for help I mean if you have somebody who knows what he's talking about who's competent and professional. Then I think it is good to get this helping hand because nobody should go through such a difficult time like I did it personally.

26:23.48
karagoodwin
Oh.

26:39.94
Dr Margit
Really working through this trauma for many many many years and if you can get such a help I think it will really change your life because it lets you understand what happened in the past and that's why I call it making peace with your past in three months because.

26:40.50
karagoodwin
Um, yeah.

26:56.60
Dr Margit
To make peace with your past. You can only live in the present and move forward into the future if you make peace with your past and I think this is essential and that's what a lot of people. Yeah are not really aware of so that's what I try to change and I try to advocate them about mental health.

27:01.75
karagoodwin
Is.

27:13.74
karagoodwin
Yes, thank you for that I mean my my sister in law took her life three or six years ago and um, just you know she we we knew that she was depressed that she was struggling and it was so difficult to watch.

27:28.57
Dr Margit
Yeah, yes, yeah.

27:30.86
karagoodwin
That and then for the end result to be to lose her. Um I Really appreciate what you're doing to help people to recognize you know what's what's happening with them and to reconcile you know to bring those fragmented parts of them. You know home.

27:38.48
Dr Margit
Now. Yes, yes, yes.

27:48.65
karagoodwin
And be able to have you know these innate abilities to cope because it's it's It's so difficult you know and and taking the stigma away from it because that's a huge hurdle too to be able to say that you're not okay.

27:55.64
Dr Margit
Yeah, yes. Exactly This is true and as you said these experiences like you mentioned they are completely devastating and it's it's something that will always be there and as you say the stigma of mental health either mentally.

28:04.60
karagoodwin
And that takes a lot of bravery.

28:12.53
karagoodwin
Um.

28:18.84
Dr Margit
Mental illness or even mental health concerns is so strong either for the person who suffers from it but also from their surroundings from their family for their spouse for their children or even parents and this is what society is not really looking at. It's just.

28:34.82
karagoodwin
Um.

28:36.50
Dr Margit
You know when you have a physical problem. Let's say you have a broken Leg. You go to a hospital. They do a surgery they fix it and everything is okay and that's accepted. But if you have a mental illness or a mental health concern or you're suffering from trauma and you require help. It is still not really accepted by society because. Till you are looked at as an outcast as somebody who is who is ah not mentally stable who is different who is weird and and this has to change because everyone of us can get a mental illness or a mental health concern everybody from of us can. Come into a situation that we find difficult to cope with and each one of us can be in such a situation. So Why do we stigmatize people so much I think this is really the point that has to change I believe and because of my own experience.

29:28.77
karagoodwin
4 6

29:33.38
Dr Margit
From Childhood onwards I have seen how how difficult this stigma is and how harsh it is on you on your family on the person who is mentally Ill and I find it simply unfair because why why do we judge and Condemn people only because they are sick.

29:51.46
karagoodwin
Right? yeah.

29:53.40
Dr Margit
That's something which is not fair because each one of us can get something like this and as long as we are not becoming more tolerant more understanding and more compassionate as long as this is not happening I think it is really important to to really shed light on it and that's what I try through my work to really. Give a helping hand and to create a safe space for those people who seek help because you are in a situation where you need help but there is a way forward people need to understand it's It's not the end.. There might be a way forward and you just need a helping hand to guide you there.

30:21.86
karagoodwin
Anyway.

30:28.81
karagoodwin
Roll.

30:30.62
Dr Margit
And that's what I'm trying to do and I believe this is important for people to know and to understand and to look at it from a complete different perspective.

30:38.85
karagoodwin
Um, right? Yes, well thank you? Thank you for all of the work that you're doing and thanks for being here today. Dr Marg and um, yes I yeah. I wish you all the best there in Abu Dhabi

30:53.99
Dr Margit
Thank you so much Kara it was really an honor to be invited as a guest on your podcast. Wish you all the best for your future podcast. Thank you so much for this lovely interview.

31:02.97
karagoodwin
Thank you.

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