219. Writing as a Path to Awakening - Albert Flynn DeSilver

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How can we use writing to start a spiritual awakening, and what are spiritual occurrences?

Can we be aware of more than just our own thoughts and feelings?

Words have the power to transform lives, and Albert Flynn DeSilver has been embodying that truth for decades.

Albert is an internationally published, award winning writer and Ted speaker. His latest book is Writing as a Path to Awakening. He has served as Marin County, California's very first poet laureate, and his work has appeared in more than 100 literary journals worldwide.

In this episode, you will learn the following:

1. How the arts help us to process and communicate our inner experiences and help with starting a spiritual awakening

2. How creativity is a way of expressing spiritual occurrences 

3. How art can be a reflection of the divine for our spiritual journey

Resources:

www.albertflynndesilver.com

Writing as a Path to Awakening

Beamish Boy (I am not my story)

00:00.00
karagoodwin
Hello and welcome to the meditation conversation I'm your host Kara Goodwin and today I'm joined by Albert de silver Albert is an internationally published award-winning writer and Ted speaker and his latest book is writing as a path to awakening. He's served as Marin County California's very first poet laureate and his work has appeared in more than 100 literary journals worldwide. So what a pleasure to have you here. Thank you for being here.

00:34.42
Albert
That's a total delight. Thank you for having me.

00:35.99
karagoodwin
So let's start by talking about your your journey in general and and what led you to finding writing as your path to awakening in whatever way speaks to you.

00:48.88
Albert
Oh geez that's a big. It's a big long story I wrote a whole memoir about it called Beamish boy which people can find but um, yeah, so I guess some let's see the the short version. Um.

00:53.67
karagoodwin
Yeah, yeah.

01:06.28
Albert
You know I grew up at a very tumultuous household had alcoholic mothers or disconnected father. There was abuse. Um, and although there were lots of of sort of physical comforts and a lot of privilege. There was not a lot of love and spiritual comforts and connections and so I was very much lost and kind of in my you know following my my mother's path of alcoholism from a young age and um, got into a lot of trouble. Um, you know at age 22 after many challenges and issues I found myself handcuffed to a hospital bed and under arrest and with no idea how I got there and so but I was alive which was kind of a miracle since that was not my first.

01:50.86
karagoodwin
Oh my goodness all look.

02:03.10
Albert
Um, hospitalization and so I sort of at that time was just realized like you know I wasn't going to get a second chance or a third chance for that matter and and that was also sort of seared into my consciousness by the.

02:03.20
karagoodwin
Wow.

02:15.72
karagoodwin
Um, um.

02:22.35
Albert
The assistant district attorney who who really kind of saw into me. It was this kind of amazing experience of someone being like it was I think it was the first time in my life. Someone's been really real and immediate with me and she's like you're not going to get another chance like I've seen I've had people in my family kill themselves this way.

02:35.67
karagoodwin
Um, and.

02:40.28
karagoodwin
Oh wow.

02:42.10
Albert
So don't do it and um and so I at that just kind of set me on this path of of um, well really waking up I guess is the easiest way to put it. It. It took a while I um I stayed that was in Boulder Colorado and um. 9091 I stayed there for another year or 2 and then I somehow got myself into graduate school at the art institute in San Francisco which was a weird miracle. But um, off I went you know, avoiding reality of.

03:11.24
karagoodwin
But.

03:20.90
Albert
Working life and um, back to school and just flailed around for you know, 2 years in this program. Super still super wounded, not dealing with with all of the issues behind the self-destructive behavior and. And then there was ah ah a night before I graduated that I I just love telling the story of of um, being sent to I was in a photography program. But everyone at the art institute at that time had to take Bill Perkson's art history class. And Bill was not only an art historian he wass also a writer and a poet and he one night I ran into him in the photo lab or something in the hallway and he was like hey there's this poetry reading down at the cal theater. You should come check it out and I was like yeah, not really my thing. But he's like well I'm going to be reading there'll speak some other people I was like okay I don't have anything going on I'll just go check it out and so I go to this reading and it turns out it's the release party for the norton anthology of Postmodern American Poetry it's like this huge deal and bill is reading and Diana De Prima is there and all these.

04:27.10
karagoodwin
And.

04:33.93
Albert
Poets from Paris Alice Notley is there from Paris and it was an all-star cast and I was just like wow what is this? you know, just totally different than my little world of photography that I have been in and you know I just heard people. Sharing all kinds of amazing experiences ideas philosophies spiritual concepts whatever that night and one of the the. The lines and the phrases that had the most impact on me was was actually from the introduction that editor was sharing the introduction he was quoting one of these long deadad poets who's actually in the anthology. But this this guy named Jack Spicer who was a um, use it like a. Ah, Berkeley Renaissance poet from the 1950 s and he wrote this piece called imaginary elegies and in that piece. There's a section where he says um, unbind the dreamers poet be like god and I was just like what.

05:38.86
karagoodwin
I.

05:40.25
Albert
That was the coolest thing I ever heard and so I was like I want to do that. You know this photography thing is cool, but there's something about words and language like you could be a seer you could be like god but I didn't really know what god meant honestly, it was this sort of abstract notion at the time. But. There was spirit behind it right? There was energy behind it and so that was my intro to writing and and I started writing from that very night and then I just a couple years later I discovered the California poets in the schools program and working with kids and you know I just kept writing. Into you know I got all the books from the library and just set off on this path basically and um and then eventually I I wound up going to ah a um Monday night thing at spirit Rock Meditation Center and um, you know met Jack Cornfield for the first time and.

06:24.35
karagoodwin
Come on.

06:35.78
karagoodwin
Wow.

06:38.39
Albert
And then that and then he was reading poetry. The first time I showed up at spirit rock for a sitting he was reading poetry most of the evening he was quoting you know Mary Oliver and Rumi and Haiti and all these poets and I was just like oh there's the intersection between heart.

06:53.69
karagoodwin
Oh.

06:57.96
Albert
Um, lovingkindness awakening healing and writing and so that's that's the short version.

07:03.40
karagoodwin
Yeah, Well yeah, thank you for taking us through that and I want to dive more into the way that creativity is is used as this expression of this higher part of of where we are. Before we get to that though I'd love to talk about. You know that was very much what I had asked which was the writing part of your journey. Um, what about the awakening part I'm curious about about that piece of it and you've talked about the intersection. But I Imagine. There's been an awakening piece that's out like it's kind of beyond the writing part. Do you want to share anything about that.

07:48.89
Albert
Yeah, so I mean it really started that that night I was sort of 26 or 7 I think the first time I I went there to spirit rock and then I just started getting into it I was like oh this is really interesting. You know and um so I started attending the Monday night thing and then going to.

07:59.30
karagoodwin
Okay.

08:06.66
Albert
Day long ah weekend retreats and daylong retreats and and then just expanded out I started studying with his Jack Cornfields teacher this guy named John Jomnyian who's a thai forest master and really interesting just presence. Um I didn't understand anything that he was saying because he spoke only th but he just had this energy and spirit about him that was kind of my blowing really you know it's like what is that you know what does that state of happiness that state of joy you know I was so internally.

08:28.43
karagoodwin
Um, ah.

08:31.94
karagoodwin
Are no.

08:42.38
Albert
Focused and wrapped up in my own story my own shit that I couldn't really yeah I really couldn't embody life in in a ah true way and I saw this this you know Alien creature from thailer.

08:52.69
karagoodwin
Um, and.

08:59.66
Albert
It was just totally joyful For no reason you know it it just it set me off on just that journey and and I just kept going and practicing the meditation in the same way that I was practicing the writing you know, just kind of consistency.

08:59.90
karagoodwin
Um, yeah.

09:18.80
Albert
Little bit at a time one breath at a time 1 line at a time. 1 word, what is it Margaret Atwood says that a word after word after a word is power and so it's just like a breath after breath after breath is power. You know it's spiritual power. It's creative power.

09:23.37
karagoodwin
Um, and.

09:28.99
karagoodwin
Um, and.

09:33.85
karagoodwin
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah I love that I know um that in my you know as I was preparing for our time together.

09:36.81
Albert
Um, together.

09:49.11
karagoodwin
Ah, you you said something I heard something about a um time where you were doing therapy in your younger years, but it was kind of like ah some sort of cult or something and you ended up like tied to a tree or.

10:04.80
Albert
Um, yeah, yes, yes so I Well no and if in a fact it was I refer to it as this is a psychedelic therapy cult.

10:08.24
karagoodwin
But that wasn't really around the spiritual I guess.

10:19.31
Albert
Because it was you know now it's very you know it's sort of hip to with the whole microdosing and the psychedelics um being integrated into therapeutic practices but this was in the 90 s you know, just sort of like the whole another generation. You could go back to you know the 19

10:20.70
karagoodwin
Um, yeah, ah.

10:27.55
karagoodwin
Ah.

10:34.45
karagoodwin
Are.

10:38.80
Albert
50 s and sixty s with Timothy Leary and all of that experimentation. But anyways there we were in the 90 s and it was um, you know the the cult piece of it was really that it wasn't held professionally it wasn't held with with safe boundaries.

10:42.42
karagoodwin
Um.

10:52.52
karagoodwin
Um, and.

10:56.55
Albert
There was a lot of improprieties. There were sexual boundaries and Misconduct Um, and and so but spiritual. Yeah I mean like I went to definitely like went to place it like total outer space experiences like super amazing.

11:13.60
karagoodwin
And.

11:15.89
Albert
Frightening terrifying but also awesome awe inspiring in the truest sense of that word and very much wove into the spirituality. You know there's a lot of um intersection between the psychedelic movement of the 50 s and sixty s and the meditation the growth of.

11:26.41
karagoodwin
Um, a.

11:35.19
Albert
Eastern philosophy and meditation in the west and so that intersection was sort of echoing out throughout the 90 s and continues on and so it was very much a part of my waking up and even though there was a lot of sort of re hashed trauma.

11:36.42
karagoodwin
Right.

11:42.64
karagoodwin
Yeah.

11:53.68
Albert
In that experience you know of of um of being let down and basically betrayed by my my teachers. Um it was It was a hard thing to reconcile like yes I was betrayed and.

12:01.20
karagoodwin
Power.

12:11.43
Albert
Yes, I was angry and yes I was super bewildered but also there was a lot of teaching that came out of that and I do think there was a fair amount of love too and and intention. But you know it turns out the the weird thing for me. It was like.

12:18.23
karagoodwin
Yeah, yeah.

12:29.40
Albert
Oh here are these Ph Ds and but mfttt whatever you know these experienced people with all these letters behind their name and they I So I got to this point in the in the practice where it was like way I have my shit together more than they do.

12:43.43
karagoodwin
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

12:45.53
Albert
And I feel like a pretty wounded little critter. You know so that was kind of like when I knew I had to move on from there.

12:51.66
karagoodwin
Yeah, well you know it's it seems like it was an important step on your journey and luckily you didn't you know make a fort there. Yeah.

12:59.98
Albert
A Yes, no and I think some people did you know and and but I attribute going. You know, kind of going really into the meditation piece and and finding another. Therapist who's really great and had good boundaries and all of that. So.

13:18.25
karagoodwin
Um, yeah, yeah, good good. Well so let's what I love so much about your your work as a writer is this.

13:26.16
Albert
So.

13:32.75
karagoodwin
This way of expressing particularly with poetry. Um where you can express things that are ineffable. So.

13:43.82
karagoodwin
Experiences like what you were just talking about where you find yourself in outer space or you find yourself in the palm of God's hand or whatever you know it is where you're like I Okay, my logical mind can't reconcile what I've experienced. But.

13:48.53
Albert
Yeah.

14:01.42
karagoodwin
There are like whispers of it in Creative works. You know like there can be you can look at a painting and see like beautifully represented something that you can't that you don't have words for.

14:16.75
Albert
Listen.

14:18.70
karagoodwin
Whether it is a mystical experience or if it's you know another type of experience. But you know picture can be worth what is it a thousand words probably more um but likewise with poetry. Um, you know again what i.

14:26.90
Albert
Yeah, right, right? right? yeah.

14:36.30
karagoodwin
When I was doing the research for you, You quoted a student's a child's poem and it ended with something about like the angel witnessing from the corner window this loom of. Like witnessing it all on or weaving it in a on a loom of sawdust or something I mean it was just just like yes oh my gosh like that's just it's just Beauty. Um.

14:53.88
Albert
Yes, yes, that's it.

15:06.96
karagoodwin
So I don't know I don't even know that I have a question there but just an appreciation for the artists that that we have here who are like tapping into more and then what they're bringing particularly you know as westerners where culturally. We place Such value. You know in our schooling and things like that on like the really practical things of math and science and yes you know not to diminish the the importance of that but you know it can come at an expense of the arts and.

15:31.87
Albert
Are. Um, right.

15:43.18
karagoodwin
The deeper I go in my own exploration my own experiences the more I see real truth with a capital T reflected in the arts and it can be in poetry. It can be again in a painting it can be in dance. It can be in so.

15:52.89
Albert
Listen.

16:02.98
karagoodwin
Many you know in in film. Ah so many different mediums but it's like it's hiding in plain sight and.

16:03.67
Albert
I am.

16:11.28
Albert
Right now. No I just got back from Greece and the whole like experience every day was like an artistic creative experience. You know the the history, the antiquities the the sculpture. The.

16:21.38
karagoodwin
Yeah.

16:28.50
Albert
Architecture the people the like the landscape. It's just like yeah this is this is it and I think you know ah TSEliot said it maybe not best but he said it pretty well when he wrote. Um.

16:33.21
karagoodwin
Yeah.

16:45.11
Albert
Poetry is a raid on the inarticulate which which I always loved because it's like yeah, that's that's pretty much sums it up. You know, um.

16:49.88
karagoodwin
Um, yeah, Ah yeah I I mean I totally feel that because I can be like but you know what I'm like okay we'll explain. This and it's but you know there's a so much there that I have so much there but then to like find the the words to try to um, narrow down What um, you know it can be like you can feel so constrained by like I mean it's kind of like this word kind of. Does it but it's not like that's a reach you know I don't know um, just like now the I'm being rated with Inarticulacy inarticulacy.

17:29.25
Albert
Um, yeah.

17:36.19
Albert
Ah, well yeah, so it's that's I mean that's why art you know doesn't have to make sense. You know art doesn't make logical sense. The best art it it makes spiritual sense. You know it makes humanistic sense. It's.

17:40.40
karagoodwin
And yeah, yeah.

17:50.13
Albert
Beyond control. It's Beyond logic. It's Beyond familiarity and yet it it. It situates us in that space of a larger awareness beyond our ourselves and I mean I wrote a lot of.

17:52.97
karagoodwin
Right.

17:59.64
karagoodwin
Yeah.

18:06.87
Albert
Very experimental kind of sound poetry stuff early on in my my writing critic just because that's where I sort of got drawn and got inspired and and I just was so intrigued by that urge want to just like.

18:08.56
karagoodwin
E.

18:15.95
karagoodwin
Um.

18:20.50
karagoodwin
So is that like on amonopia type of thing.

18:26.78
Albert
You know I mean out of the traditions of this surrealists and the dadaists and you know where kind of anything goes. Um, but yeah I mean it would include things like on a monoipia and just sound as um as primary in terms of of meaning. Over logical sort of making narrative sense. You know, like Gertrude Stein is a perfect example, you know she just has these like repetitive tangential phrasings that that don't add up to like you know a Mary Oliver poem is is like.

18:49.53
karagoodwin
Yeah.

18:58.23
karagoodwin
Are the.

19:05.56
Albert
Ah, there's Mary sitting by the pond you know writing a descriptive image of the scene and the animal so you've got it all figured out. But when you read a Gertrude Stein poem you're like what you know you're you're just in this like total zone of um.

19:10.90
karagoodwin
Um.

19:19.22
karagoodwin
Um.

19:23.84
Albert
In some ways in I was going to say incoherence. But but ultimately it's a it's a state for me. Anyways, it's a state of sort of transcending coherence where it's auditory coherence. So it's just a different thing. You know, um.

19:37.44
karagoodwin
Um, oh I Love that auditory coherence. Yeah, that's great. Well.

19:41.78
Albert
Yeah I mean if you think about music like music where you don't always hear the lyrics or you don't understand the lyrics you're still in the harmony right? You're still in the gro and there's a feeling that's being transmitted through those sounds well. The same thing can happen when.

19:51.24
karagoodwin
Um, yeah, right? um.

20:00.85
Albert
When language is is um, offered up in ah in a certain way rhythmically in a poem.

20:07.12
karagoodwin
Write. Yeah I love that So how can people use writing as a transformational practice for healing I Imagine you know this is the the essence of your book writing as a path to awakening. So um.

20:19.29
Albert
Man.

20:24.80
karagoodwin
How does that work on the the transformation into a healing state.

20:29.35
Albert
Well first you just have to do it that seems to be the hardest part and actually putting the pen to paper you know or the fingers to the keys. It's huge.

20:40.80
karagoodwin
Um, that is an important part of any writing is doing it. Ah.

20:46.83
Albert
I Mean it's the same thing with meditation right? like people wonder like what is the spiritual journey and how do I get started and well you just sit there and be quiet and and you know create I mean you know there's there's little steps of course. But ultimately it's extraordinarily simple. You know where.

20:46.87
karagoodwin
Um, that is.

21:02.52
karagoodwin
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

21:05.56
Albert
You know you're sitting and breathing and doing nothing which for us busy minded westerners turns out to be pretty hard and with writing it's It's kind of the same thing like it's just setting down what's in here. What's in the heart. What's in the mind in this moment and um.

21:24.20
karagoodwin
Um.

21:25.30
Albert
Most of us are so conditioned out of faith and trust in our own voice that that's where the resistance comes up. You know it's like oh am I You know you're already judging it before it's even out and and that's.

21:39.41
karagoodwin
And then.

21:43.67
Albert
You know that's why when I work with people. It's it's all about supporting them and reminding them really I mean it's It's me just reminding like no, you are a creative Genius like right now and I don't use that word lightly I Know that's a charged word and people can be like Genius Only certain people get.

21:56.95
karagoodwin
Um, and.

21:59.96
karagoodwin
Are.

22:03.62
Albert
But no I've been teaching writing for 25 years and you know I've worked with second graders all the way up through you know, eighty five year olds and when people are reminded of and given space to express their truth in the moment with. Compassion and with kindness and openness they write the most beautiful things and so that opportunity is always available and I mean it does oftentimes it just takes context and it takes support and you know like a class or whatever. But. How it's healing is just you know. However, you want it to be It's inherently healing I think you know one of the examples I I think I can give is just you know writing my memoir was.

22:49.87
karagoodwin
And.

23:00.65
Albert
I didn't I wasn't like oh I'm gonna heal myself in write a memoir I Like that wasn't really the intention. It was more about telling the story that I had to tell like that I really felt it in my body and somehow I couldn't I couldn't really like ah the poems couldn't contain it in the way that I wanted to tell it.

23:04.18
karagoodwin
Um.

23:18.72
Albert
And so I I turned to narrative and and I was always intrigued by Memoir and and and people navigating challenges in their lives and overcoming obstacles through the the telling and story and I started to see it as telling the story to let go of the story.

23:35.16
karagoodwin
A.

23:37.96
Albert
And so that act I was like well I'm not going to I don't have to send this to anybody I have to share this one with anybody I can just tell my truth. This is what happened to me and this is where I am now and I'm going to do that to the best of my ability.

23:45.17
karagoodwin
Who.

23:54.72
Albert
And I'm going to learn like what it means to tell a good story So I'm going to study hub and I'm just going to stay with it. You know word by word by word and see what comes and it and it just turned out that there's lots of great models out there. You know people who've gone before. And and and so it it turned out that it was healing you know and I think writing is subtly healing in its own way. Um, and and people just need to find that that that path for them.

24:18.37
karagoodwin
And. Um, yeah.

24:27.87
karagoodwin
Yeah I I think too like if we think of like a multidimensional universe you know and and the multidimensional life that we're all, we're all having this life that consists of.

24:31.26
Albert
Speak.

24:47.19
Albert
Listen.

24:47.73
karagoodwin
Many dimensions and so when we put like words down, you know on our computer or on ah in a notebook or even like some people. It's more about drawing. Um, but it like it brings it like. Deeper but dimensionally because that's a different dimension like letters and and paper and I mean literally if you put pen to paper you're putting it in the second dimension because that's 2 dimensional you know, like whereas you know. I Mean you can see that with your eyes that it's you know it's flat and it it literally grounds it into a different dimension and and so I don't have the complete picture of like what that means from a healing perspective but it does seem to help it like move.

25:24.72
Albert
Have.

25:41.26
Albert
Yes, yeah, that's great. That's great. No I mean because writing is one of the most concentrated points of awareness and focus that we have as human beings and so when you do write something it. It becomes literally etched.

25:41.50
karagoodwin
You know, energetically through our life in a different way. You know.

26:00.68
Albert
You know there is a release like you say there's an energetic movement and there's a release and that you know I found that the page is infinitely compassionate right? You can you can swear at the page. You can love the page you can curse the page you can cut the page and it's still.

26:01.57
karagoodwin
Um, and.

26:08.54
karagoodwin
I Love that.

26:18.74
Albert
Going to show up for you the next day. It's still going to love you and hold you you know and that's kind of like the metaphor for the universe and for spirit like spirit loves you spirit's cheering you on. It's our often our minds and our attitudes toward spirit or the page or or whatever.

26:20.87
karagoodwin
Um, yeah, yeah.

26:37.66
karagoodwin
Um, write yeah he yes yes.

26:38.61
Albert
That is what's coloring things. But Beauty's always there right? Love is always there. Genius and Creativity is always. It's all around us. It's happening constantly and we just have to kind of shift our alignment to.

26:50.10
karagoodwin
And another.

26:56.85
karagoodwin
Yeah, that's beautiful in the page is infinitely compassionate. It's how you said? yeah I love that That's awesome.

26:56.93
Albert
To get into that flow and then we're off and running.

27:05.37
Albert
Yet.

27:11.44
karagoodwin
So do you do you have some thoughts about practices that that are useful for overcoming like compulsive and addictive behaviors.

27:22.11
Albert
Funny You should ask because I'm working on a collection of essays right now about I mean it's really about identity addiction and spirituality and um so I think that.

27:24.63
karagoodwin
Ah.

27:34.37
karagoodwin
Um.

27:39.72
Albert
You know free writing practice is I think one of the most beneficial because we can kind of Uppace Our our judging mind so that's basically stream of consciousness writing where you're you're um, timing yourself.

27:50.94
karagoodwin
Um, so what do you mean by free writing. Okay.

27:58.37
Albert
Um, there's urgency. You don't pick your pen off the page. You don't stop to question like oh wait I need to put a comma there. You're just sort of like boot out on the page and you can do this handwriting I think is in some ways more interesting because it's There's a physicality to it and a direct kind of.

28:16.69
karagoodwin
Any within.

28:17.37
Albert
Bodily transmission but you know you can do it on the keyboard as well and or even vocally you know, recording your voice and um, but just going moving with urgency and with speed and with um, ah. Ah, kind of enough intensity that you're really outpacing that sort of controlling mind that wants to judge and wants to stop and want because in the right context what we do is you know we're always just kind of allowing whatever it's there to to be on the page and.

28:52.89
karagoodwin
Um.

28:53.42
Albert
So it doesn't matter like you don't have to show this to anybody right? You don't have to it doesn't have to be good. There's no qualifiers here. You can just tell the truth the raw unadulterated truth and let a rip and what happens is that people are most. Often surprised he felt like oh that's interesting I've never phrased something like that or I've never really thought about my relationship to Xyz in this way or wow I didn't know I had this level of.

29:13.34
karagoodwin
Green.

29:30.78
Albert
Rage in me or this level of love in me or this level of insight in me and so it's a really powerful practice for for shifting the energy around our and our own sense of possibility.

29:48.53
karagoodwin
That's beautiful I mean I think that'd be. That's a great practice for everybody. Even if you're not necessarily trying to overcome. Yeah, that's great. You mentioned you're working on and essays for identity.

29:54.35
Albert
Um, oh yeah.

30:03.38
karagoodwin
Addiction and um spirituality So talk a little bit about the identity piece.

30:05.97
Albert
Spirituality and. Well, this is the big thing right? like when we identify if I identify as Albert with my particular story in my history and my hangups. My limitations perceived limitations right? and perceived deficiencies and blah blah blah. Then I'm I'm really limiting myself. You know I'm I'm limiting my capacity for creativity my capacity for relationship my capacity for manifestation of all kinds in the world and so I think an identity is is corners down to. Spiritual development and awakening the more that we're able to let go that conditioned ego the the more compassionate we become the more loving we become the more things open up and the more we're able to transcend our stories. You know.

31:01.35
karagoodwin
And.

31:04.20
Albert
I mean I used to think that I was ah you know little wounded Albert who couldn't complete a sentence and had nothing to offer the world. You know I was filled with such self-hatred that I was willing to drink myself to oblivion and to literally try and kill myself to annihilate this.

31:22.97
karagoodwin
Wow.

31:23.23
Albert
Thing that I thought of as not being of use to the world and then I started to see differently I started to see like oh maybe there's something else here. There's some other possibility. There's some other potential.

31:35.60
karagoodwin
Me.

31:42.63
Albert
There's something a mystery that's driving me forward. That's giving me some sense of capacity and contribution and purpose and this is just like we're on this journey of expansion and.

31:44.59
karagoodwin
He.

31:58.89
Albert
To to be I mean that's my total devotion in this life. It's just like stay devoted to expansion every moment every breath and the writing is all about that. The the meditation practice about that. The interactions with.

32:04.51
karagoodwin
Um, and.

32:09.73
karagoodwin
A.

32:18.10
Albert
My family and my neighbors and Kara on the podcast like this is we're all waking up together right now like it's it's happening now. Um, but to see our so we have to start seeing ourselves in a broader context and not as these little sort of.

32:23.83
karagoodwin
Um, yeah.

32:31.70
karagoodwin
He he.

32:37.23
Albert
Tiny identities So in these essays I'm really exploring these various facets of personal identity and and addiction. You know we can be addicted to I I heard this I got this idea because I was ah on a retreat with ad ashanti who's a.

32:39.41
karagoodwin
Ryme.

32:43.85
karagoodwin
Yeah.

32:56.24
Albert
Spiritual teacher out here in California and um, he said something and I was either on a talk or on the retreat. But what I heard him say would you can be addicted to anything. You can be a thoughtaholic he said and I was like what. I thought all like that's pretty interesting and and because I have an addictive personality I was like oh I'm definitely a thought all like I love thoughts and I love my thoughts right? and I love thoughts about me and my situation and my worries and my da to death and so that became like.

33:14.66
karagoodwin
Um, yeah, yeah.

33:21.29
karagoodwin
Um, and.

33:32.29
Albert
Oh this would be really interesting to explore and so it's I was thinking actually of naming the book hello my name's Albert and I'm a thoughtaholic but but I don't know if that's going to go over well we'll see what the what the editors and the publishers think of that. So.

33:43.85
karagoodwin
Um.

33:47.10
karagoodwin
Yeah, yeah, that's great I love that Well how can people connect with you and find out more.

33:50.62
Albert
Um.

33:59.00
Albert
Yeah, so I have ah a website that's kind of bumbling along in various states of disarray I've just been changing a lot on it. But it's albert flintasilver.com is the best way. So my full name dot com.

34:02.40
karagoodwin
Now.

34:13.73
Albert
I am on all the social media outlets. You know I haven't been posting lately because I was ah I totally unplugged going overseas and it was like the greatest thing I hadn't unplugged to that level.

34:29.77
karagoodwin
Um, yeah.

34:32.22
Albert
A long time and it was a total revelation and now I don't want to go back every time I like I get the little temptation to go onto Instagram I'm like nah hey it's like this is not serving me I don't think there's so much noise out there like I don't need to think that.

34:35.14
karagoodwin
Um, yeah.

34:42.43
karagoodwin
Um, yeah.

34:50.84
Albert
My whatever is going to really be of of any interest right now. So I'm just taking a break from it. But I'm there and if you reach out I'll I'll connect with with people. So.

34:57.75
karagoodwin
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh that's awesome. Yeah I remember like right after my son was born and he's 15 now. So this was a while ago but um. I had for years been spending time every day on this like celebrity gossip site and it was a funny celebrity gossip site so that it was just like this really witty like whoever wrote it was just very witty but it was mean but um and.

35:30.22
karagoodwin
I was kind of starting to get back in the flow. You know my son was a newborn and it was like try you know like oh yeah, it's checking the email and whatever and it was like you know I had been pretty regularly going and looking to see what the next blog post was on the celebrity site and I just couldn't bring myself to do it. And I couldn't quite put my finger on why but I was like I can't it was like it was going to break something it was going to break burst some bubble and um and I haven't looked at it since if I mean I don't know maybe I've stumbled across it here and there but like I haven't actively.

35:55.89
Albert
Um, yes.

36:06.90
karagoodwin
Looked at it in all these years, but it was like this in grit It was this entrenched behavior and um, but there was something about it that was going to take the magic away. You know of this threshold I'd crossed and um.

36:16.83
Albert
Instance.

36:23.10
karagoodwin
So that just what what it reminds me of when you talk about that.

36:23.42
Albert
Yeah I mean I think we do have to be vigilant, you know and like I'm working on various book projects right now and you know I want to show up for my students and my community and and so I have to be very conscious of what am I ingesting you know in terms of information.

36:38.67
karagoodwin
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

36:43.19
Albert
And I want to be ingesting you know, high vibration high spirit high love and kindness and generosity because that's the catalyst that's going to change the world. You know there's a lot of just confused Junkye mean-spirited.

36:53.78
karagoodwin
Yes.

37:01.89
Albert
Crap out there in the political culture especially and you know my devotion is to to being the antidote to that and being like so.

37:02.70
karagoodwin
Um, yeah.

37:09.74
karagoodwin
Yeah, absolutely yeah because we're constantly programming ourselves everything we take in. We're programming and it it. It ultimately comes through in how we project out what we take in ends up being what we project out. So.

37:18.62
Albert
That's right? yeah.

37:23.13
Albert
You know.

37:28.53
karagoodwin
I mean I I do the same you know I'm very conscientious about what I engage with and I encourage I'm always encouraging people to like be mindful because it's it is. It's going right into your subconscious and it is programming your thoughts your behaviors your beliefs.

37:42.20
Albert
That's right.

37:47.48
karagoodwin
Um, and so we don't and it causes us to just be pulled along by life and to you know like you're talking about with the identity. You know we don't even know who we are We just you know we we accept what we're told and you know.

37:50.95
Albert
Half.

38:02.49
Albert
Students use.

38:02.67
karagoodwin
Draw our own conclusions from that and it's like no, we're we're like so much more than we could ever imagine. So yeah, well thank you so much I have really enjoyed this and.

38:10.17
Albert
Yes, we are.

38:18.00
karagoodwin
Um, and I just really appreciate the work that you're doing um you know with the creative outlets and and helping people to be able to see these reflections of the divine you know in ah in these abstract ways that are are so important.

38:35.79
Albert
Yeah, well, that's it's totally beautiful and a great opportunity. Thank you so much Kara for having me I Really appreciate it.

38:42.34
karagoodwin
My pleasure.

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