193. Chronic Pain Treatment's Missing Piece - Dr. Tanya Paynter

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Does your gut impact your seratonin levels?

How much control do we have over our gene expression?

I love this conversation with Dr. Tanya Paynter SO MUCH. She offers a treasure trove of information about the complexities of health and the integration between body and spirit. She specializes in migraines, and in this episode I share how a very long migraine was a physical manifestation of my spiritual awakening. Find a link to her free mini-ebook below!

We dive into many topics on this episode:

• How different processes within the body impact seemingly unrelated systems - for instance, the impact of gut health on serotonin levels. 
• All of the different facets of health which contribute to your migraines, i.e. hormones, diet, genetics.
• Epigentics, and the ability of turning on and off genes and how they function.
• The gut biome, how it gets damaged, and the impact on our immune system.
• How does spirituality play into your health?
• How might the lab results (blood) for someone who suffers from migraines differ from the traditional normal ranges?

Free ebook:  https://www.migrainemastery.org/migraine-5Things-ebook 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tanyapaynternd

Facebook Group:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/endmymigraines

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/MigraineMasteryAMigraineFreeLife

Website:  www.migrainemastery.org

00:00.00
karagoodwin
Hello and welcome to the meditation conversation I'm your host Kara Goodwin and today I'm really excited to be joined by tanya painter tanya is a naturopath and she's been treating women with chronic migraines for almost a decade. Having suffered from chronic headaches herself for nearly twenty years she has a god-given calling to help women find a way to manage their migraines more effectively. She's the founder of migraine mastery which is a 24 week online program designed to significantly reduce migraines and help women better manage their symptoms so they can move beyond just surviving and get back to doing what they love so welcome Tanya I am so excited to explore this really important topic.

00:49.39
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Thank you! I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

01:46.36
karagoodwin
Yeah, it's my pleasure. So I'd love to hear a bit about your journey because it sounds like you started down the path of traditional medical practice and then turned into the naturopathic path. So what drew you to netropathy.

01:26.31
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Yeah, so you know the the plan was always to become a doctor ever since I remember the moment that I was just fell in love with the human body and learning about it was in the None grade my fourth grade health class and um. And ever since then I knew I wanted to be a doctor and the the plan was always to go to med school and then you know, go practice maybe at a hospital and as I continued to grow and kind of. Banned my understanding of you know medicine in general but also um I started suffering when I was 16 I was rear-ended in a car accident and then I started suffering from regular headaches. Um, which then kind of progressed in severity and chronicity to becoming every day and then they would you know come into to migraine flares and um and then you know I went down all the path of trying all the medicines and everything nothing worked. And it wasn't until I started kind of branching out and understanding. Okay I know there's something more that's going on that's causing this. So what is going on and I started digging and that kind of took me away from the traditional you know, conventional medicine route and more into naturopathic medicine because. That's where I was starting to really learn about how the body is working altogether and all the different things that can play a role in my headaches and um and then None thing led to another and I just I fell in love with that particular kind of medicine and so that is kind of how my trajectory changed a little bit and I went to naturopathic medical school. And I've been practicing ever since and I absolutely love it.

05:21.94
karagoodwin
Oh that's amazing and I mean so it it was through your own healing journey really that things started to fall into place. It sounds like.

04:55.90
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Yeah I remember actually having a conversation with my mom one day when I was in the process of applying to medical schools and she's like have you heard of this naturopathic medicine thing and I was like what. And that was before it was more well-known and um so I looked into it and that's exactly what I had been doing for myself as I was kind of exploring and kind of trying to figure things out and so it just was right up my alley I I never was a fan of taking Medications I didn't my body didn't tend to respond well to them I'd get all kind of weird side effects and.

06:13.96
karagoodwin
And.

06:00.61
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Didn't help as much as other people said that it helped them and I just felt odd I felt like the oddball right? and and so then this was the kind of medicine where I was looking at different options that was nutritional nutraceuticals. You know supplements um herbs things like that and I loved it and it was amazing. Um.

06:59.10
karagoodwin
Are.

07:26.14
karagoodwin
Ah, that's that is amazing and so you I think you just probably answered this question but I love like you talk about an integrative approach to migraines. So is that.

06:36.93
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
So yeah.

07:54.52
karagoodwin
Is that what you mean by that where it's like it's nutrition and its supplements and it's like more than just the you know, let's fix the the symptom and get to more how do we get you into balance in that way.

07:25.43
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Right? Yeah, the one of the problems that I see especially when it comes to migraine since that's my my area of Expertise is you know the the neurologists. They're amazing, right? They know the brain inside and now they're aware of all of that. But when it comes to the gut symptoms that that same person is experiencing. They're like well no go see the gastroenterologist and then when you talk about? Well I'm having a lot of skin issues and you know itching and that kind of oh well,, that's the dermatologist. So go see that and so.

09:21.26
karagoodwin
Movement.

08:35.79
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
It's very you know, chunked out into systems but our body doesn't work that way because our gut Health is very very closely tied to our brain health and our skin health and our Immune health and you know all of it. So. That when we're looking at migraines and and working on migraines. Specifically it's very important to take in the whole body as a whole and treat all of the different areas that we know I mean we have so much research about Migraines. We know that. You know we know how serotonin affects the brain but we also know that the gut is now responsible for making Well it's not now. It's always been. We just discovered that the gut is what makes the majority of our serotonin so you can't have a problem with serotonin regulation and address it from the brain we have to go to the source right? We have to dress it from the gut.

10:38.54
karagoodwin
Um, yeah.

10:15.39
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Which involves gut healing and inflammation and that comes back to Diet. So There's a lot of dietary stuff to it but then on top of that. There's also the genetic component right? What is your body made. You know how does your body make and process these different neurotransmitters and so then we look at some of the genetics involved and we know that through epigenetics which is ah. We understand that that we have the ability to to turn on and turn off genes and how they function We can't change the genes but we can change how they function in the body so that needs to be playing a role and so there's all these different areas that we have linked to migraines as contributing factors and so if we're not addressing all of them In. You know our patients. We're not getting them the relief that they need because the balance their their body imbalance is still there. That's really what we need to get to in order for them to start feeling relief from their migraines.

12:49.26
karagoodwin
That's amazing I mean I didn't know that serotonin comes from the gut that's incredible now Serotonin plays say it again. Wow.

12:05.53
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Yeah, about 95% about 95% is made in the gut. Yeah, not in the brain like we used to think? Yeah yeah.

13:20.22
karagoodwin
And Serotonin is an important um element in depression as well. Right.

12:37.70
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Absolutely yeah, it's None of our feelgood neurotransmitters. Um, it' highly implicated in migraines not with everybody trypttans one of the the most common medications for migraines are based on that sero serotonin pathway. Um, and so those work for a lot of people because serotonin is highly involved in migraine but not for everybody sometimes it's something called dopamine which is a different neurotransmitter that's not quite the same. So the the trytans don't really work for someone with a dopamine imbalance but we also know from the studies that there are. Dopamine issues going on with some people as well. So you know takes them digging.

14:35.28
karagoodwin
That Yeah, that's really interesting Does the the gut biome I Assume that plays a role and that my so you know not having any medical background I'm just totally like armchair explaining this. Um.

14:04.89
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Are huge.

15:14.44
karagoodwin
But my understanding of the gut biome is that that it's like the Width of like a fraction of the width of a hair and it lines the stomach and so it's very ah, delicate or very you know very thin and then if it is permeated like if it's um, if there's any break or gap in it. Then things from the gut will leak out and go into I don't know your bloodstream something like this.

15:13.43
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Yeah, so um, so that's kind of the idea of leaky gut right? I think of it of um, it's supposed to be like a brick wall nothing gets through unless it goes through the portals that are built into that brick wall but what what ends up happening as a result.

16:11.52
karagoodwin
Okay.

15:46.25
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Of you know, just the the toxicity that we live in how our food is grown the pesticides and herbicides that are being used on our food products that actually breaks down that brick wall. So then we start having chunks taken out and instead of a brick wall. It looks more like a chain link fence.

17:05.80
karagoodwin
That.

16:17.57
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
And so then food particles and things are just kind of getting through all willy-nilly and your Immune system isn't set up to to handle not completely digested. Food. So What it does our Immune system that is lining that gut that the inside of that gut wall. Starts to come in and attack it right? And that's where we start getting antibodies against various common foods that we shouldn't be having antibodies against because it's getting the proteins are getting through not fully broken down and so it's a product of you know how? how are the the inflammation relating to our gut that's allowing these food pieces in. Causing an overactive Immune system causing Inflammation. So. There's this big negative cycle.

18:30.48
karagoodwin
Oh Wow, that's fascinating. Okay, thank you for that. So one one area that I'm very interested in talking to you About. We've talked a lot about the the body and the physical makeup of the body. Um. But you also see spirituality as playing a role in chronic pain. So Can you go into that a little bit.

18:27.90
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Sure. So um I actually have done a lot of looking into so I'm I'm a huge science nerd right? But I'm also a very spiritual person I'm a christian. And um, so that is a very important piece of my life and my journey personally and so I started looking into the science behind how religion or spirituality plays a role in our health. And there is a ton of research. In fact, just yesterday I was doing some digging into there was this huge meta study done of over None they reviewed None different studies. Um on the role of spirituality and healthy spiritual practices in our health and the overwhelming number showed. I mean I have I have my list here. There were so many things that I had to write down I can't remember them all so we know that it affects you know, anxiety depression mood and we know that overall happiness levels are higher but it also positively infects. Our. Ah, decreases substance abuse increases social interaction increases our desire for exercise and physical activity increases our desire for healthier diet it decreases blood pressure decreases stroke risk increases lifespan decreases dementia I mean I literally have a list that I can keep going down. And these are all studies that have been done that have shown how people who engage in regular spiritual practices are exhibiting these health benefits as a result so this is a huge thing this is becoming much more important to me than it ever had been in the past as I'm starting to really understand how. You know when we're looking at an integrative approach. We're mind body spirit right? We know our emotions impact our physical health we know spirituality ah impacts our emotions and our physical health as well. So we can't treat one of the 3 areas if we really wanted to see true and long lasting healing happening.

22:57.56
karagoodwin
Yeah,, that's beautiful. Thank you I It is interesting because Western Society in particular does seem to you know we like you mentioned that you're a Christian so it's like. That's kind of something that you just do in your own time sort of in you know your own community that you've but it's not something that like is reinforced in the media typically you know or and in your social interactions necessarily outside of those that you've built through.

22:47.90
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Um.

23:04.75
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Um, right.

23:19.49
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
I Mean it's almost taboo right to talk about somebody's spirituality and beliefs. You know.

24:12.64
karagoodwin
You know church so they were exactly exactly So we've kind of got like such a ah belief structure in our society where it's like whatever is through the five senses. That is societally what we all agree on as our foundation Now there are other societies like in the east where they also accept that there's a spiritual Component. We all come from Source. We all have a spirit and so that it's hard.

24:16.30
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Okay.

25:21.64
karagoodwin
For us to even comprehend I Think if you've never experienced a society like that that it exists because you just you grow up in what you grow up in and it's like oh yeah, it's okay, if you believe but you're not going to have that reinforced at school or and.

25:02.73
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
It's length.

25:58.40
karagoodwin
You know on on Tv or whatever in the news you know they're not going to be talking about your spirit. It's all going to be material stuff. Ah, and so that extends for sure into the medical I mean from a mainstream perspective and your your doctor more I mean it would be unusual.

25:20.99
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Ray. The over.

26:37.52
karagoodwin
For your doctor in mainstream in the masses to talk about spirit and the role that the soul takes in your healing. Um, and so it's it's. Important for us to understand and to accept like hey you're a complex being that includes a soul. So How does that play into your healing. Um, so I don't know I mean it's fascinating to have those studies and to to kind of drive that point home is there anything sort of. Practically that you see in your work that helps with with managing chronic pain in terms of like connecting with your spiritual side or anything like that.

27:12.51
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Yeah, um, real quick I Want to kind of touch back on what you said about um about that kind of taboo and um, you know that that holds very true through medicine I think as Well. Um. 1 of there was a study that I came across that showed that 87% of None people that were polled 87% of them wished or wanted their doctor to talk to them about their spiritual beliefs and practices. Um, because you know I think Intuitively we all understand like that's an important piece to our lives and you know of course not everybody I've I've talked to some people about it and they're absolutely not. That's not the doctor's place.

29:24.26
karagoodwin
And.

28:36.59
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
And that's okay, if you're not comfortable talking about it. Nobody is going to be forcing anybody to be talking about something. They don't want to but ideally you know the the relationship between the doctor patient is one of trust and um of openness the more open you are with your doctor about your symptoms How you're feeling how how life is Going. What's going on in your life. The better they can help you and they because they understand the context of what your symptoms are appearing as and so um, I Just think that it's really important to start, you know, just kind of putting that in the back of your mind like how does me talking like what does this look like because. I Can almost guarantee you you're not going to be asked that question by your doctor. You're going to have to bring it up and that's how I practiced when I was in primary Care. I Never approached it like I never asked my patients about it which if I were to go back to Primary Care. It absolutely would be on my intake form now I understand the value and how important this really is so I think it's up to us as patients to approach the subject because once it's broached by the patient then the doctor is. Hopefully more likely to be open to discussing it but you know again, there's that taboo line. So Nobody wants to cross it and ask a question that might be deemed inappropriate and so then you know so I just like to kind of throw that out there so people just are thinking about it and say you know what? I loved when my patients would talk to me and we would um, sit there and have.

31:47.32
karagoodwin
Um, yeah.

31:17.65
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Theological discussion sometimes right like it's just fun to connect on that level with a patient. It's just totally different. So anyway that was a little bit of a tangent. Um, but your um so your question was kind of how practically this applies. So what one of the things that I teach my clients is um.

32:13.60
karagoodwin
Um, yeah, yeah I Love it.

31:55.83
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Is meditation um, becoming more aware and more in our bodies. We're super good at just kind of ignoring what our bodies are telling us right because we've got all these things on our list that we have to do and we just power through and then we are exhausted by the end of the day and if we start kind of tuning into what our bodies are telling us.

32:45.82
karagoodwin
Um, and.

32:34.43
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Then we can change how our bodies respond to the stress through the day which is extremely important in chronic pain in general in migraines in particular and um and so when we're talking about practical application of this meditation has been shown to help lower levels of pain. And levels of cortisol Release. So Interestingly they broke it down into meditation versus non-meditation and then they broke the meditation piece into spiritual versus secular so secular being you know the sun feels good on my skin I can feel the air coming through my body those are secular like feelings.

34:34.62
karagoodwin
Me.

33:51.50
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Has nothing to do with spirituality and then there was the spiritual Meditations where someone was engaged in prayer or a spiritual mantra or they were reciting a bible verse to themselves or whatever it is that they're focused on but it was you know a spiritual aspect. And those people actually had better outcomes for the meditation than the secular meditation does so very clearly again that spiritual piece comes through so you know whatever your beliefs whatever you like to do I Love doing kind of prayer Meditations where you're just sitting. You're being present in your body and then you're just praying. Ah, some people really like the mantra one where they're focused on ah a verse from their particular book of choice whether that be the bible or the quran or the Torah or whatever and that they're just sitting there kind of meditating on a particular Verse. What does this mean you know having it speak to you kind of thing. Um, so any of those kinds of practices can be very very helpful and I've actually had multiple clients tell me that they were able to breathe or meditate themselves out of a migraine and so this is hugely powerful medicine that we don't use. Now. Of course it's not going to solve everything but the more we can get into that practice and and I encourage it as a daily practice then the more we see that those pain levels are impacted our stress response goes down the hormones start balancing Better. We start feeling better Overall more Energy. We sleep better I mean we really start to see a lot of these things come forward, but it has to be a very intentional habitual practice that we're starting to engage in. Not just oh you know I I Remember to do it today and.

37:54.34
karagoodwin
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you for that I Love the scientific approach that you have to it and the the data that you have behind it.

37:07.53
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Four days later oh I should probably do this again. You know like it's got to be something that we're really intentionally doing every day.

38:28.78
karagoodwin
I have on my website http://karagodwin.com I have a just right there on the homepage um a few sections down there's like a video and and I made the video I think like four days after I burned my face accidentally with a curling iron and the minute.

38:10.97
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Is.

39:08.78
karagoodwin
And I have am a habitual meditator. You know so like you say it takes dedication. Um, but you know I have developed this consistent practice and I'm very in touch with my consciousness and the magic that's within the consciousness and just how powerful it is and. So As soon as it happened I brought all of my awareness to it. Ah you know a lot of times we we experience pain and we move away from it and it's like oh anything to distract myself from it and it was like Nope everything is going right? to where I just hurt myself and I didn't do.

39:12.93
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Exactly you.

40:23.92
karagoodwin
Anything physical I mean I didn't even like put water on it or anything. Um I you know like a lot of times they say run it under cold water I didn't do anything literally. All I did was bring awareness to it bring and just imagine light flooding it.

40:08.30
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Okay.

41:02.92
karagoodwin
Bathing like all the cells that were damaged um in this light and some Ge Geometric ah visualizations as well and the pain was really really manageable. You know it did I mean there was a physical response. It did get read. Um, but I I so dedicated time to just focusing on that and being very very aware of it. So I didn't go into a meditation I did it kind of on the fly but um, and then you know.

41:11.51
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Yes.

42:10.16
karagoodwin
Just like all burns over time like as the hours went by I could keep feeling it. There was a lot of heat there. Um, and so anytime I would notice it I would again bring all my awareness to it. Flood. It just intend healing light. You know going In. And I have burned myself before many times like on my arms and things like that and it's always developed into a blister and it's taken and then a scab and it's taken a long time to heal and it may weep and um. All these things like I'm familiar with what a curling Iron Burn can do and then I had done this on my face which is really delicate skin and it I did get a little bit of like a superficial scab but it really wasn't that bad and I continued to just simply work with. Consciousness and you know again like over the course of its healing I wasn't applying anything even homeopathic stuff or or essential oils or anything and then I made a video after a few days just kind of chronicling what I had done um and and. Did the video so that you know they could see what it was and as soon as I made the video the rest of the scab fell off and I have no mark nothing. Um and it was really really Powerful. A really powerful indicator of what consciousness can do and.

43:44.19
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Um, if.

45:02.40
karagoodwin
And what our awareness can do what our intention can do and the capabilities that we have within us to heal. You know that it's not outside ourselves. You know we can We have this ability to call it in and um.

44:21.91
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Absolutely.

45:35.00
karagoodwin
So I Just but I talk about that from like the the spiritual and consciousness side and then I Love what you bring in as far as the studies and what like scientific research there is about what these benefits are from practices and you know so they're very very powerful. Practical. Results out of a ah devoted meditation practice for sure.

45:32.57
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Yeah I was surprised and as I was kind of looking through all of the material the the amount of research on the physical and the spiritual um has kind of grown exponentially over the last ten or fifteen years I mean they were they were combing the the research from. Like the early I think it was the early 70 s up until just recently um I think it was 2015 when when it was published and you know they they were saying how there was more none of the research was done in the last you know, None ears of that entire span. So I think we're. Were from a scientific standpoint. We're becoming much more aware of how this is and and every article that I personally read through um which was nowhere near none but every single one of them that had studied the effects of spirituality on physical um physical health all suggested.

47:58.94
karagoodwin
Um.

47:27.15
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
You know this should be incorporated into a clinician's intake every single one of them. This should be you know, asking about the the patient's spiritual beliefs and and habits should be incorporated as part of the intake. Um.

48:39.62
karagoodwin
Um.

47:53.95
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
And you know when you can find a huge body of research that supports that across every single article. That's pretty overwhelming evidence that you know this is significant. This should not be ignored.

49:01.00
karagoodwin
Um, ah right? Yeah, Thank you for that. So I was surprised to see the online. The online course resources that you have for helping people to um to overcome their migraines and. I Would think that you'd need treatment over education just mainstream like Western thinking like you need treatment and education sort of like if you want to dive into it. You can, but it's kind of like your your approach is here is a course to help you to be able to overcome it. So Tell tell us about that like the the courses in the education and and how that plays into the the healing.

49:39.57
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Sure thanks for asking and there kind of what we do is a little bit of both and we walk a fine line being an online. You know we're considered health coaches so we can't actually treat people.

50:54.12
karagoodwin
Um, okay.

50:07.97
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
But we still can help them to review their lab work and kind of give them guidelines so you know there's There's just so much that is outside of. Conventional, acceptable standards when it comes to migraine specifically right? We have research that shows that Thyroid Lab levels should be a different range for normal than the typical person because they found that even within on the lower end of the normal range for Thyroid function. Um, they found an an association with increased migraines and increased frequency and Intensity. So you know unless you're looking at some of this through the lens of of a person specifically with migraines we're missing a huge chunk of information and so while the the conventional approach might say oh well, your labs are fine. And then I take a look at it or my team looks at it and like your labs are actually not fine for migraine. Your lab should be between this and this and we need to work on getting this up so we definitely work closely with their home medical providers If There's any need for prescriptions or things like that. So there still is some treatment involved.

53:08.22
karagoodwin
Are.

52:20.93
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
But a lot of it really is just about education around our bodies and how it works together so we do we call them the None major focus areas right? So we have diet and gut health. Um, that's one of the first things we dive into finding a healthy diet for the individual It's not just a one size fits all. Some people need a low histamine diet. Some people need a highcarb diet. Some people need a low fat diet. It just depends on their body makeup and so we help them to kind of determine what type of diet is going to be best for them but generally we need an anti-inflammatory diet no matter who we are right. And so there's education around some of the things that can be triggering for people with migraines some of which people know, um, many of them don't know the nuances of how we can actually use food as medicine for ourselves. So if we know for example through lab work that this person has a problem with dopamine and serotonin. Here are the foods that helped to support dopamine and serotonin. Let's change our diet a little bit to start getting what we need from our food so we don't have to sit there and take medications or supplements like ideally we wouldn't be on supplements either right? We could get everything through food so we really kind of work on tailoring that to the individual.

55:13.80
karagoodwin
Are.

54:38.87
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Take a look at their lab work basic blood work as well as um, salivary and urinary testing for hormones Cortisol adrenal function and neurotransmitters so fairly comprehensive picture from a biochemistry standpoint. And then a lot of it is about the person paying attention to their body and their but our body gives us so many symptoms so much information that we just don't know how to ah put it all together and so when we start to understand the patterns that are emerging and how. Different symptoms my gut symptoms and my hormone symptoms play a role into my migraine symptoms when we look at it from a whole person perspective like that then we can actually start to see some of those common patterns emerging. And we know. Okay, these are these are issue areas for you. Um, based on how our hormones interact with our neurotransmitters that interact with our different inflammatory Processes. So It's very very complex and it can be very overwhelming so we really just help our clients sort through all of that information. As they're kind of feeding us the patterns and the things that they're noticing that are triggers for them. Um, and things that are helping them and those are all clues as to where their bodies out of balance and when we really start to focus nutrition. Um supplements herbs that can be supportive. And we actually start seeing the body healing and our body wants to heal. But we live in ah in such a way just generally speaking in this in this society we live in such a way that is counterproductive to healing right? Our high stress. We don't sleep very Well. We have all this five G stuff now that. Again Research is showing is interfering with sleep patterns and all kinds of different things. So we're starting to see you know we're fighting against that we're fighting against how our our food is raised and so you know as we're kind of working through all of these different pieces and putting them all together for the it's it's. There's some things that everybody should go through and then there are the specific things for you as an individual that needs to be tailored and you need both pieces in order to really see that that healing and we're having our average client by the time they're done working with us is reduce their migraines by over 90% So It's very very effective. It is That's I think that's the biggest thing is the lack of control. You feel you have when you don't want to do anything because you're not sure what's going to trigger versus now I know what's going to Trigger. So.

59:43.40
karagoodwin
That's yeah and and empowering to yeah um.

59:28.10
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
You know I have control over my life and I can make the choice of whether I'm going to engage in that or not um and or they know when their vulnerable time is right because a lot of us are more vulnerable around ah hormone changes and things.

01:00:24.86
karagoodwin
Are.

59:53.27
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
So then we know okay, we need to kind of be mellow during this week this is gonna be kind of our down week our recouping. Maybe we spend a lot of time in meditation or prayer and then we kind of move through the rest of our month right? So um, it does give you so much more control and that is just such ah a liberating thing when you've been under.

01:00:57.80
karagoodwin
Ah.

01:00:28.29
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
It's control for so long.

01:01:18.24
karagoodwin
Yeah, beautifully said, Thank you So I'm curious about ocular migraines you and I were speaking before we started recording does do ocular migraines fit in with your work.

01:00:57.95
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Yeah, so again, it's just a different presentation right? Vestibular migraines Ocular migraines. Um, some of the less common less standard migraine diagnoses. They're all, they're all different. Um.

01:01:55.86
karagoodwin
And.

01:01:30.19
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
What do I say they're they're just different ways of a body expressing an imbalance and so yes, so ocular migraines can be treated the same way. The vestibular migraines can be treated the same way. There's a few a few little things that are different more common with those types of migraine as opposed to just kind of the the standard. Um.

01:02:25.82
karagoodwin
Okay.

01:02:07.77
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
You know pain and and nausea light sensitivity things like that. Um, but yeah, it can all be addressed that way.

01:02:58.40
karagoodwin
Um, okay, that's really interesting and just in case there is anybody listening who's not familiar with the word you know, ocular migraine would be more of a visual. You're having a visual impairment or addition. Some sort of visual stimulation I was what would be What was the other one. The the one with the V This that's Stupid. Oh dizzy. Okay, so I have a personal history with ocular migraines. Um.

01:02:56.10
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Vestibular So that's where you get really really busy. Yeah move.

01:04:07.90
karagoodwin
And which was one of the reasons I was so drawn to your work and I have not had them for years really, but um, in my I remember my early 20 s like the very first one I just had this obstruction in my vision that was. Followed by searing pain in my head like I could I was it was so fascinating because I could see something in my peripheral vision and it wouldn't go away like my eyes were open or closed. It was there and I couldn't look directly at it because everywhere I looked. It was always in my peripheral.

01:03:52.77
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Meet.

01:05:13.90
karagoodwin
And then after a few hours of dealing with that because that's weird you start to feel like what is this a brain tumor or something because it's just like it's not in the physical and yeah, and then I was getting like searing pain in my head I was at work and I remember like talking to somebody and.

01:04:32.63
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Yeah, very alarming.

01:05:53.22
karagoodwin
Like the pain was it came so fast and so intense that I I had to like grab my head and I was like ah you know while I'm talking to this colleague like oh my God I must look like somebody I didn't know very well. But um so I went to my eye doctor.

01:05:07.91
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Are.

01:05:24.30
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Ah.

01:06:30.24
karagoodwin
Ah, because I had no idea what this was and he was like yep, this is a migraine and I'm like a migraine like I thought that was just you know like a a bad headache and of course again like I had the the pain but that was kind of like it would flare up and then it'd go and it flare up and it would go Um, but it was more the visual.

01:06:06.91
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Is.

01:07:09.20
karagoodwin
Um, and then I would just have them off and on for years and but you know I'd go a long period of time and not have them and sometimes there was pain and sometimes there wasn't like they were always kind of different and then in um, none thought I was having an ocular migraine because I was seeing things in my peripheral but whereas all the migraines I'd had before it would last for a few hours and then like it would be gone the next day or it'd be gone later in the day this went on for weeks.

01:07:28.69
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
This.

01:08:21.20
karagoodwin
And it was different things like I was seeing like checkerboard patterns that were circles but there were like checkerboards and they were rotating and and then like but but very like specific checkerboard kind of things and.

01:07:48.45
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
A.

01:08:53.56
karagoodwin
Whereas in the other migraines there weren't specific like shapes or colors you know and then it would change because it went on for so long. It wasn't always the same thing but there was always something in my vision.

01:08:09.75
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Sweet.

01:09:24.18
karagoodwin
And so I ended up going to the hospital. Um and having it checked out because I was um, living in Italy and it was you know I was like I have no idea what's going on and I didn't really have like ah ah the medical system there while I was there as an expat was just different.

01:08:35.25
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
You know.

01:10:03.16
karagoodwin
But I wanted to rule out something super serious and I had a friend whose husband was an ah an eye doctor in the hospital and so he helped me out but they put it down to my macula which is a part of the eye and it and they insisted that I had had a virus.

01:09:34.37
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
And.

01:10:40.60
karagoodwin
And um and they were like this virus has these like kind of specific symptoms and it was based on a study with like 6 people or 6 or 8 people or something like that and they're like it's very rare. It's to do with your macula. Um, and you must have forgotten.

01:10:14.90
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Wish fuck.

01:11:18.54
karagoodwin
That you had this virus that had these symptoms you know that and you you would have ordered that your children had it and you were exposed to it and and like it just didn't add up. Um and then it wasn't until like last year that i. I realized it was part of my spiritual awakening because of the way that it was lining up with other things happening in my life. Um, and I wonder if it was like different parts of my brain like specifically the pineal gland that was like changing or coming online or or something. Um. And I don't know I don't know I it's very mysterious because it was so physical in I'm putting that in quotes. Um, you know I was having like I could see it and I would I remember like trying to tell my good friends like. Yeah, if I okay look at that hill like you see the hill so just to the right of that. There's a checkerboard circle that's spinning you know and she's like no yeah like I know it's not there but I can see it. You know? um.

01:12:34.25
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Kaleidoscope.

01:13:37.76
karagoodwin
So I don't know I don't know if you have any thoughts about that I don't I don't really have like ah, an eloquent question but I just wonder if you've if you've heard about things like this or like a conjunction with sort of a spiritual awakening type of thing or anything like that.

01:13:15.93
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Um, I you know when I when I first was on the the path to medical school I was very show me the science like I want to see this I Want to see the proof and then Naturopathic Medicine is very much a combination of science based and keeping an open mind.

01:14:22.98
karagoodwin
And.

01:14:40.30
karagoodwin
And.

01:13:53.55
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
And as I've as I've gone through training and practice I've come to understand that we know so little about how the body works and we know even less so about the things that we can't measure. Are you know the connection that we have to other people and you know some of the the energy. Um, that you know we all interact energetically as well, right? we know that our bodies produce energy like that is physically. You know we've measured that before um, but I think there's just so much that we don't know about the spirituality part. Um, that. You know I hear stories like this and I'm like yeah if that's what you think is Happening. You probably are right? You know I've come to really understand that we intuitively know more about our bodies than anybody will ever ever understand and we just have to trust that intuition and we need.

01:16:13.42
karagoodwin
Long.

01:15:50.25
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
We need more doctors who are open to taking in the the observations and the intuition of our patients because I can't tell you how many times I've been stumped on something and sure I can come up with a Bs reason for something right? But then my question is always what do you think. And you know sometimes they look at me like what do I think I don't know you're the doctor but it's like well no, really like what do you do you have any kind of like feeling about what might be going on and None times out of 10 they'd say well you know I don't know why but I feel like x y or z okay, let's explore that a little bit more and sure enough.

01:17:15.20
karagoodwin
Um, and.

01:16:57.79
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
That was you know a part of what was going on So I've really come to to respect that you know what? if you think that that was part of that spiritual awakening I bet you? That's what it was. You know I bet you it was a manifestation.. There's no proof on any of it nor will I think we ever have proof. But I think that's. Ah, part of our spiritual journey right is having that faith and understanding that there is something bigger than us and being okay with knowing that we're not ever going to know all the answers until it's too late for us to really care about them. I think you know.

01:18:32.24
karagoodwin
Um.

01:18:44.62
karagoodwin
Yeah, well said. That's what's so funny is that this was like right on the edge of when it was starting so it was like looking back it would it predated really like the. Things really kicking in to where like because I've gone through a big transformation over the years and this was like right on the precipice like I had no idea of what was about to happen in my life that that triggered the ah the subsequent. Awakening you know I mean really because there were like there were things that happened in my life in a series of events where it was like okay I have to you know like like stuff just got real. You know is like.

01:19:32.59
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Um.

01:20:28.92
karagoodwin
I was on the playground and then it was like oh I Oh I need to get my Ph D Now you know and and meditation was a huge huge part of that and a huge transformational tool but when all this was happening. It was like right when it was just about to happen. And so I I guess I offer this because if people are drawn toward this particular episode then they probably have There's a good chance that they're dealing with migraines so they may hear something in that where it's like oh I have no idea why. What might be behind this and it's very mysterious and it doesn't you know? maybe it's not maybe it's just very similar to mine like I know what an ocular migraine is this is what I would say that this is but there's no pain and it's going on way longer than I thought. And you know there's no brain tumor and there's you know, apparently the doctor you know out of lack of options is going with the macula and that also doesn't seem to make sense because there's this missing like virus piece to it. Um, and so maybe it's like huh. You know it could be something that in retrospect fits you know that we just don't have 3 60 site to at the moment but it could be something bigger. That's awakening within us.

01:22:18.90
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Right. Yeah, and you know I I do a um, ah bible study every every other week every other Saturday for chronic pain. Um, and you know and in ah in fellow christians who are stuck in that cycle of chronic pain and and you know. The this the very real struggle and anger and frustration that comes with that and specifically a lot of people that are angry at god why did you give this to me and you know I I won't lie I had that anger as well. When I was having migraines or headaches. Um severe headaches. They weren't all migraines. But. Every day for almost a decade and I got very angry and it's like why is this happening to me like what why why me why this and but now looking back you know twenty years later I understand because I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing right now if I hadn't gone through it myself and understood how little options there are if the medications don't work for you and I you know luckily I already felt drawn to medicine. So I was able to go to to med school and and that was a passion for me and now you know now I have a passion of helping women with migraine because I've been through it myself I understand where they're coming from and so I definitely think that you know god can use our experiences our pain um to help minister to others in whatever way that looks like. And to me that's that's my calling now. That's what I'm doing. Um, so now I'm thankful for the decade of pain that I went through you know it wasn't at the time for sure. But looking back. You know you have the the benefit of hindsight and and seeing the pieces starting to come together. But.

01:26:14.50
karagoodwin
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's so beautifully said I mean so I there I can't think of anybody who has gone through a massive transformation who has not had it triggered by tragedy or trauma and.

01:25:50.93
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
We don't always get that benefit. Yeah.

01:26:13.55
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Been thankful for? Yeah yeah.

01:27:15.70
karagoodwin
And so it's it is it. It's It's a beautiful way to use it. You know to use it for service. You know is an incredible way to repackage what we go through you know.

01:26:57.17
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Yeah, have at least give some purpose to it. Yeah.

01:27:53.64
karagoodwin
Yeah, exactly well Tanya this has been amazing. Um, how can people find out more about you and your your approach to migraine overcoming migraines.

01:27:30.69
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Yeah, so they can visit me on on our website http://migrainemastery.org and then if they are specifically dealing with migraines and want to hear you know some of the the ways that we kind of approach things I have a Youtube channel called ah migraine mastery a migraine-free life. And that has just a bunch of different videos on things that we kind of address more specifically. Um, and then we also have a free Facebook group called migraine mastery. Um, um, and my migraine support group as well.

01:29:18.66
karagoodwin
Oh beautiful I'll put all of those links in the show notes and so people can find you? Well thank you so much. This has been a really beautiful discussion and thank you for everything you're doing to serve women with migraines.

01:29:03.85
Dr_ Tanya Paynter
Thank you.

01:29:54.30
karagoodwin
I Appreciate you being here.

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